How Many Asian Civilizations?!?

[Crayton]

In Civilzation 3 there were (10) Asians civs out of (31), about 32%.
In Civilzation 4 there are (6) Asian civs out of (18), about 33%
I guess they are pretty consistant.

Again a poll, to ask how you would have carved up Asia if you were given only 18 civilizations for this new game.

 

[SonicX]

This is hard...

I'd never leave either Persia, Japan, China, India, Arabia or Babylonia out.
But it's so large, so then again, can we just abandon the Israelites, Korea, Siam, the Ottomans (Europe or Asia ?), the Hittites, the Mesopotamians ?

I'd say 6 on 18 is fine, although i'd prefer a larger selection ofcourse (12 out of 32 ?)

 

[Nyvin]

Since Asia always has represented at least half of the world's population, it's obvious they should get at least a decent sized role in it all.

 

[Kyriakos]

6 in civ4, since we already know them

more, in x-packs:


babylon or sumeria or assyria
turks (or ottomans)
korea
phoinecia or hittites (no relation, just that i wouldnt want too many civs near each other)
khmer or siam (again no relation)

 

[Che Guava]

Hmmmm, a tough call since I never really know where Asia beings and Africa/Europe ends. Is the middle east past of Asia? Russia? I always considered Asia to encompass India/Pakistan/Afghanistan), China, Japan Indochina and islands around there (Indonesia, Phillipines, etc) with the Middle east, Russia and the Caucus states as somewhere in between. If we go by my logic, I would say India, China, Japan, Mongols, Koreans and maybe the Khmer for good measure. If Asia encompasses the middle east and the Former USSR, then many more...

 

[Israelite9191]

I posted a complete list of civs that I think is encompassing in the Europe civs forum, just take a look. I think I had 8 out of 18 in my short list.

Edit- BTW, the Middle East, minus Egypt but including the Caucuses, is part of Asia. Siberia is Asian, but the home-territiry of Russia is European. And since Russia grew up there, it would be a European civ. Just to make things clear, the Suez Canal seperates Asia and Africa, the Caucuses are Asian, Turkey is Asian, and the Ural Mountains seperate European Russia from Asian Siberia.

 

[Crayton]

Here is a handy-dandy formula...
1/3 European
1/3 Asian
1/6 American
1/6 African

Would anyplace be misrepresented with this formula?
This takes into account: mass of population, volume of history, and cognition of the buyer (I wish marketing didn't play a role in making a game).

 

[Tee Kay]

Suppose the culture group are African, Asian, Mid east, American, and Western, my idea is to equalise the civs in each category. But this is hard since, for example there are a few well-known civilisations in East Asia but there are heaps in Europe and Middle East (thanks to colonialism which impose western culture on everyone and make them forget their own region). But supposing there are 35 civs in all I would suppose the most equal you can get between cultures would be:
6 American civ (exc the US of A)
6 African/Oceania civ
7 Asian civ
8 Middle Eastern
8 Western

 

[Tee Kay]

Anyway, anyone know how the culture group will be decided in civ4?

 

[Princeps]

dammit, I thought you meant far eastern, with word Asia...

Well...

Babylon, Mongolia, China, Persia, Arabia, India, Turks, Tibet and Japan.

 

[Robi D]

Hmmmm, a tough call since I never really know where Asia beings and Africa/Europe ends. Is the middle east past of Asia? Russia? I always considered Asia to encompass India/Pakistan/Afghanistan), China, Japan Indochina and islands around there (Indonesia, Phillipines, etc) with the Middle east, Russia and the Caucus states as somewhere in between. If we go by my logic, I would say India, China, Japan, Mongols, Koreans and maybe the Khmer for good measure. If Asia encompasses the middle east and the Former USSR, then many more...

The border so to speak between europe and asia, is the ural mountains through russia to the kazakhstan border, which is follows around to the southwest to the caspian sea, it then goes across the caucasus mountains (so georgia, armenia, azerbaijan are in asia) then down through the black sea and the straits of bosporous which istanbul is, so half of the city is in asia and half in europe.

 

[apatheist]

But this is hard since, for example there are a few well-known civilisations in East Asia but there are heaps in Europe and Middle East

Maybe to you, but the game shouldn't reflect the poor coverage given to non-Western civilizations in Western schools.

 

[mastertyguy]

Guess who's back!!!
Persia, Babylon (or whatever), Mongolia, Arabs, China, Japan and India for me, so 7 here (100% if you would add my european, american, asian and african civ you'd get more than 18 )

 

[Crayton]

I'll agree with mastertyguy. For me: Phoenicia would be right behind Japan in order of deservance (It was ahead of Japan, and then I slapped myself). I may start a new thread for Japan and China...

 

[RCL]

Why the majority of you want some abstract 'equal representation' of culture groups etc? Is it what makes game fun for you? Are you really interested in waging wars between Hui and Han sub-nations of Chineese? Or do you want 'equal representation' just because it's 'fair'?

I voted 5 or less, just because it's totally no fun for me to play Chineese, Vietnamese, Japanese or any other *ese people which are all roughly the same for me. Yes, I may sound ignorant and/or chauvinist, but I favor the nations I'm more interested in and more know about. (And I think that it's pretty natural that a Chineese player would vote for '8 or more' option because he is probably less interested in European civs than we are).

My point is: don't vote because of abstract values like 'equality' etc. Vote for what is fun for you. There's no such thing like fairness in real life.

 

[mastertyguy]

To me, playing China is fun, so I have to disagree

 

[Trade-peror]

My point is: don't vote because of abstract values like 'equality' etc. Vote for what is fun for you. There's no such thing like fairness in real life.

Do vote for what is fun! But fun and "abstract values" are not mutually exclusive for everyone. Besides, who said Civ had to reflect reality, especially the negative aspects of reality? I think a lot of people play Civ to get away from reality, and find it fun to try new "perspectives" through playing a variety of Civs, including the unfamiliar ones.

 

[Crayton]

Also, the game creators have some obligation to represent history. This does not mean equal representation for percentage of population, number of cities, type of religion, etc....
Game creators should include Asian civilizations because they influenced/produced history.

The Babylonians, Persians, Arabians, Mongols, Turks, Chinese, Indians, and Japanese all influenced world history and (even if you want a Euro-centric Civ game) European History extensively.

If you can knock Asian civilization because little history exists in the region go ahead; but, don't knock it if you, yourself choose to be ignorant.

 

[kasmasnou]

no more than Chinese, Japanese and Mongols at nort-eastern... Indians at south-central... and Turks, Arabs, Babylonians and Persians at south-western.


other (Koreans, Viet, Siam, Tibet...) were minors and less important.

 

[DBear]

Problem with this thread is you count Middle Eastern civs as Asian, which to me is just wrong. Obviously, the big three--China, India and Japan. From the Middle East we need Arabia, Persia, Babylon. There's three more. Africa weighs in with Carthage and Egypt. Americas have USA, Aztecs, Incas. Europe has UK, France, Spain, Germany, Russia, Greece, Rome. There's my 18. So I vote 6.

The Mongols should not be one of the original 18, but should be in an expansion. And I would love to see the Khmers represented in Civ sometime.