How many soldiers are represented within one hex of unit?

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How many soldiers are represented within one hex of unit? regular units not Corps nor Army. does it varies with eras?

IF 'Corps' and 'Army' represents larger formations. does One hex without this level of organization is equal to regiments or companies of 2,000 men strong?
 
It’s abstract, vague, not specified and definitely changes as the game progresses. Personally, I peg the units at about 5,000 (brigade or legion size) each.
 
Six hundred. No, wait - five and half. Or is it 10,000? I don't think the question can be answered, as for it to be possible for there to be a consistent ratio, you would need it to be uniform across very different kinds of military formation and technology, even within the same era. As with a lot of the board-gamey representational elements of the game, I don't think there is much to be gained from trying to establish precisely what is being represented. There is no 'there' there...
 
Oh, and by the way, units are not confined to the hex they are in: detachments are in the adjacent hexes for recon (so they can see what’s behind that ridge), and various administrative purposes.

Doh! Where is the supply train.
 
I suspect a single unit would be a division given that corps and armies are the larger formations.

A division I think is something between 5000 to 20 000 people, keep in mind that these also account for the support personal which probably would make out half or more of the division. A corp is generally made out of several divisions, so maybe 50 000 or more and an army is made up of several corps so 100 000+.

But keep in mind that the game is an abstraction, especially in the past armies was quite small given the limited logistics while the 100 000+ numbers is the size of modern armies. A roman legion would be around the size of a small division and a roman army would be probably be about what a corp is today.
 
I have always viewed the 'units' in game as abstracts. For one thing, to be even vaguely 'historical' they would have to vary by Era/period dramatically.
For example:
The largest regular unit in ancient Egypt was the Pedjet of 1000 - 1250 men or 250 chariots.
The largest regular unit in Mesopotamia (Sumer, Akkad) was the Sanga of 400 - 700 men

In other words, about the size of a single Battalion in an army of the Industrial, Modern or later Eras.

Both had larger military forces, the Mesha in Egypt and the Erin in Sumer, but they simply consisted of "everybody available" and frequently translate as "Host" or "Corps".

There are no regular units in Classical Greece. All the phalanxes of the various city-states simply consisted of everybody who showed up with spear, shield and armor. The maximum numbers given for any single city-state are around 10,000 - the hoplites of Athens OR Sparta.

The Macedonian Army of Phillip II and Alexander and his Successors was a professional army with a regular organization. The Pezhetairoi ('Phalanx" of pikes) were in Taxeis of 1600 - 2000 men each, the Hetairoi or 'Companion Cavalry' in squadrons of 200 - 300 men (the Agema or Spearhead squadron was larger). Many of the allied parts of the army and light troops appear to have been in decimal organization of 10 - 100 - 1000, and the later Companion Cavalry and Hypaspists were in Chiliarchai of 1000 men each.

The Roman Legion is a case study in frustration. The 'classic' Roman Republican Legion was 50 Centuries. Since a Century means 100, that would be 5000 men, the figure usually quoted. Except that in the late Republic a Century was 80 men (the 'squad' or Contruba was 8 men, but it was led by a Decurion, which translates as "Leader of 10") In addition, the 'standard' Republican army (led by one of the Consuls) was 2 Legions plus 2 Allied (Italian) Legions, making the 'Legion Slice" closer to 8 - 10,000 men.
BUT during the mid and late Empire, the part of the Legion that could actually be deployed in the a field army was as little as 1200 men.

Virtually all of the Central Asia 'nomadic' Factions/Civs had a decimal 'organization' of 10 man groups, 100 man companies (a Cossack Company in the Russian Imperial Army and Soviet Army as late as the 20th century was still called a sotnia = "100"), 1000 and 10,000 man 'Units'.

Chinese armies varied even more wildly, since the 'military system' of almost each Dynasty was different. One notable feature, though, is the number of 'non-combatants' in each army - true of almost every army in history, but some Chinese accounts actually list them for a change. So, we have a figure for one Tang Dynasty Army of 80,000 men, but that total included over 50,000 'carriers' - civilians carrying supplies, tending horses, servants, etc - and less than 30,000 'troops' and most of the fighting was done by a single force of 1000 heavy cavalry!

In Medieval Europe the only 'permanent' military organizations are the High Medieval 'Lance' - which consisted of a knight and, depending on the kingdom and time, a variable number of 'assistants' including squires and other armored horsemen, light horsemen, archers, and the usual rarely-counted collection of servants. At the other extreme, for combat a Medieval European army was divided into 3 or 4 'Battles' with no fixed organization at all.

Post-Medieval Early Modern Armies started to be more uniform in their organization. While the Ottomans stuck to the 'traditional' Decimal organization, in Europe various 'standard' units became common: pikes in 'decimal' units of about 1000 men, then muskets, crossbows, halbards, and other 'auxiliary' weapons started getting added. The earliest fixed Pike and Shot unit recorded is the Spanish Colunela, or 'column' of about 1000 men, including 1/3 auxiliary crossbowmen, swordsmen or arquebussiers and 2/3 pikes. Three of these were soon combined into the famous Tercio. In the Netherlands the Medieval 'Battle' became the fixed Battalion with 1/2 to 1/4 pikes and the rest arquebuses or muskets, totalling 600 - 1000 men.
In most armies the standard military unit became the Regiment which, on the actual day of battle, could be divided into Battalions. It took about 150 years for the number be standardized, though: as late as the early 18th century the number of battalions in an Austrian Regiment depended on how many senior officers were available on the given day, resulting in 'battalions' from 400 to 2400 men in size!

By the Industrial Era in game terms (1740 on) the 'Modern' organization was standard in Europe and was eventually adopted throughout the world by the 20th century: a battalion of 400 - 1200 men (average about 800 men) combined into Regiments or Brigades of 3000 to 6000 men depending on the number and amount of supporting units, divisions of 10,000 to 25,000 consisting or several brigades or regiments plus an increasing host of supporting elements: artillery, antiaircraft, antitank, combat engineer, reconnaissance, tank, medical, supply, maintenance, etc. The division was, from the Napoleonic Wars until after WWII, considered the 'standard' and smallest unit that could operate independently for any length of time.

The in-game 'Corps' and Army' units are artificial. In reality, except in the Soviet Army in WWII (tank and mechanized Corps had standard organizations), neither was or is a standardized unit. A Corps was simply a variable number of brigades or divisions and the Corps HQ was invented to make it easier for the Army Commander to control large forces over wide areas (during the Napoleonic Wars). The Army was a HQ with a specific task and given whatever amount and combination of regiments, battalions, brigades, divisions and corps were considered necessary to accomplish the task. A modern 'Army Command' in fact, may be a territorial command simply controlling all the forces in a given area whatever they are doing, while the actual combat forces have tended to get larger with increasing numbers of 'support' troops - modern US Army Brigades are bigger than some WWII Divisions and cover correspondingly large areas compared to their ancestors in previous 'Eras'.

In game terms, we have a very few units, usually Uniques, that can be identified with specific historical units and numbers of men: the Garde Imperiale is graphically the Grenadiers a Pied of Napoleon's Guard, which were 2 regiments of 4 battalions, or about 3500 men total. The 'Rough Riders' were a single regiment of US Cavalry with an authorized total of just over 1200 men - which total they never took into combat. Graphically the 'Roman Legion' in the game is a late Republican Legion(airy), which would represent a Legion of 4 - 5000 men (plus auxiliaries that could easily number another 4000 + )
The Persian Immortals were a single group of 10,000 according to Herdotus, but the largest number recorded in a Persian document in battle were 2000 of them at Gaugamela against Alexander (which, admittedly, may be all that were left after almost 20 years of Civil War in Persia - Alexander was attacking a very badly battered Persian Empire that had been fighting itself for a generation)

If pressed, I would assume that each Era has a different 'size' of Unit, based on historical possibilities - early states simply did not have the resources or administrative structure to mobilize the numbers of men and horses and weapons that later states could, and keep them fed long enough to get them into battle.
So, I would put the average Unit at:
Ancient Era - 500 men: a Pedjet or equivalent.
Classical - 1000 men: the 'classic' Decimal organization
Medieval - 1000 men: No advance over Classical
Renaissance - 2500 men: A Tercio, Swedish or Netherlands Brigade
Industrial - 5000 men: an Infantry Brigade of 4 - 6 battalions or Cavalry Division of 4 or more Regiments
Modern and later Eras - 10,000 men: a Brigade or the fighting component of a Division
 
I have always viewed the 'units' in game as abstracts. For one thing, to be even vaguely 'historical' they would have to vary by Era/period dramatically.
For example:
The largest regular unit in ancient Egypt was the Pedjet of 1000 - 1250 men or 250 chariots.
The largest regular unit in Mesopotamia (Sumer, Akkad) was the Sanga of 400 - 700 men

In other words, about the size of a single Battalion in an army of the Industrial, Modern or later Eras.

Both had larger military forces, the Mesha in Egypt and the Erin in Sumer, but they simply consisted of "everybody available" and frequently translate as "Host" or "Corps".

There are no regular units in Classical Greece. All the phalanxes of the various city-states simply consisted of everybody who showed up with spear, shield and armor. The maximum numbers given for any single city-state are around 10,000 - the hoplites of Athens OR Sparta.

The Macedonian Army of Phillip II and Alexander and his Successors was a professional army with a regular organization. The Pezhetairoi ('Phalanx" of pikes) were in Taxeis of 1600 - 2000 men each, the Hetairoi or 'Companion Cavalry' in squadrons of 200 - 300 men (the Agema or Spearhead squadron was larger). Many of the allied parts of the army and light troops appear to have been in decimal organization of 10 - 100 - 1000, and the later Companion Cavalry and Hypaspists were in Chiliarchai of 1000 men each.

The Roman Legion is a case study in frustration. The 'classic' Roman Republican Legion was 50 Centuries. Since a Century means 100, that would be 5000 men, the figure usually quoted. Except that in the late Republic a Century was 80 men (the 'squad' or Contruba was 8 men, but it was led by a Decurion, which translates as "Leader of 10") In addition, the 'standard' Republican army (led by one of the Consuls) was 2 Legions plus 2 Allied (Italian) Legions, making the 'Legion Slice" closer to 8 - 10,000 men.
BUT during the mid and late Empire, the part of the Legion that could actually be deployed in the a field army was as little as 1200 men.

Virtually all of the Central Asia 'nomadic' Factions/Civs had a decimal 'organization' of 10 man groups, 100 man companies (a Cossack Company in the Russian Imperial Army and Soviet Army as late as the 20th century was still called a sotnia = "100"), 1000 and 10,000 man 'Units'.

Chinese armies varied even more wildly, since the 'military system' of almost each Dynasty was different. One notable feature, though, is the number of 'non-combatants' in each army - true of almost every army in history, but some Chinese accounts actually list them for a change. So, we have a figure for one Tang Dynasty Army of 80,000 men, but that total included over 50,000 'carriers' - civilians carrying supplies, tending horses, servants, etc - and less than 30,000 'troops' and most of the fighting was done by a single force of 1000 heavy cavalry!

In Medieval Europe the only 'permanent' military organizations are the High Medieval 'Lance' - which consisted of a knight and, depending on the kingdom and time, a variable number of 'assistants' including squires and other armored horsemen, light horsemen, archers, and the usual rarely-counted collection of servants. At the other extreme, for combat a Medieval European army was divided into 3 or 4 'Battles' with no fixed organization at all.

Post-Medieval Early Modern Armies started to be more uniform in their organization. While the Ottomans stuck to the 'traditional' Decimal organization, in Europe various 'standard' units became common: pikes in 'decimal' units of about 1000 men, then muskets, crossbows, halbards, and other 'auxiliary' weapons started getting added. The earliest fixed Pike and Shot unit recorded is the Spanish Colunela, or 'column' of about 1000 men, including 1/3 auxiliary crossbowmen, swordsmen or arquebussiers and 2/3 pikes. Three of these were soon combined into the famous Tercio. In the Netherlands the Medieval 'Battle' became the fixed Battalion with 1/2 to 1/4 pikes and the rest arquebuses or muskets, totalling 600 - 1000 men.
In most armies the standard military unit became the Regiment which, on the actual day of battle, could be divided into Battalions. It took about 150 years for the number be standardized, though: as late as the early 18th century the number of battalions in an Austrian Regiment depended on how many senior officers were available on the given day, resulting in 'battalions' from 400 to 2400 men in size!

By the Industrial Era in game terms (1740 on) the 'Modern' organization was standard in Europe and was eventually adopted throughout the world by the 20th century: a battalion of 400 - 1200 men (average about 800 men) combined into Regiments or Brigades of 3000 to 6000 men depending on the number and amount of supporting units, divisions of 10,000 to 25,000 consisting or several brigades or regiments plus an increasing host of supporting elements: artillery, antiaircraft, antitank, combat engineer, reconnaissance, tank, medical, supply, maintenance, etc. The division was, from the Napoleonic Wars until after WWII, considered the 'standard' and smallest unit that could operate independently for any length of time.

The in-game 'Corps' and Army' units are artificial. In reality, except in the Soviet Army in WWII (tank and mechanized Corps had standard organizations), neither was or is a standardized unit. A Corps was simply a variable number of brigades or divisions and the Corps HQ was invented to make it easier for the Army Commander to control large forces over wide areas (during the Napoleonic Wars). The Army was a HQ with a specific task and given whatever amount and combination of regiments, battalions, brigades, divisions and corps were considered necessary to accomplish the task. A modern 'Army Command' in fact, may be a territorial command simply controlling all the forces in a given area whatever they are doing, while the actual combat forces have tended to get larger with increasing numbers of 'support' troops - modern US Army Brigades are bigger than some WWII Divisions and cover correspondingly large areas compared to their ancestors in previous 'Eras'.

In game terms, we have a very few units, usually Uniques, that can be identified with specific historical units and numbers of men: the Garde Imperiale is graphically the Grenadiers a Pied of Napoleon's Guard, which were 2 regiments of 4 battalions, or about 3500 men total. The 'Rough Riders' were a single regiment of US Cavalry with an authorized total of just over 1200 men - which total they never took into combat. Graphically the 'Roman Legion' in the game is a late Republican Legion(airy), which would represent a Legion of 4 - 5000 men (plus auxiliaries that could easily number another 4000 + )
The Persian Immortals were a single group of 10,000 according to Herdotus, but the largest number recorded in a Persian document in battle were 2000 of them at Gaugamela against Alexander (which, admittedly, may be all that were left after almost 20 years of Civil War in Persia - Alexander was attacking a very badly battered Persian Empire that had been fighting itself for a generation)

If pressed, I would assume that each Era has a different 'size' of Unit, based on historical possibilities - early states simply did not have the resources or administrative structure to mobilize the numbers of men and horses and weapons that later states could, and keep them fed long enough to get them into battle.
So, I would put the average Unit at:
Ancient Era - 500 men: a Pedjet or equivalent.
Classical - 1000 men: the 'classic' Decimal organization
Medieval - 1000 men: No advance over Classical
Renaissance - 2500 men: A Tercio, Swedish or Netherlands Brigade
Industrial - 5000 men: an Infantry Brigade of 4 - 6 battalions or Cavalry Division of 4 or more Regiments
Modern and later Eras - 10,000 men: a Brigade or the fighting component of a Division
Damn son
 

Never, never, never, never ask that kind of question of a military historian who was also a miniatures wargamer for 20 years unless you are ready for an answer like that one :mischief:
 
If pressed, I would assume that each Era has a different 'size' of Unit, based on historical possibilities - early states simply did not have the resources or administrative structure to mobilize the numbers of men and horses and weapons that later states could, and keep them fed long enough to get them into battle.
So, I would put the average Unit at:
Ancient Era - 500 men: a Pedjet or equivalent.
Classical - 1000 men: the 'classic' Decimal organization
Medieval - 1000 men: No advance over Classical
Renaissance - 2500 men: A Tercio, Swedish or Netherlands Brigade
Industrial - 5000 men: an Infantry Brigade of 4 - 6 battalions or Cavalry Division of 4 or more Regiments
Modern and later Eras - 10,000 men: a Brigade or the fighting component of a Division

So this means Tercio (Did Portugese also use this term too? Tercio once was a name of Spanish UU in Civ5) is a size of one unit uncombined?. And this means it is still valid to add Tercio for Spain as 'Anticav' choice (standard) or 'Infantry' choice (Modded, which i'm CURRENTLY working ogn this combined unit class rightnow and that's serious coding because it affect promotions both this unit class uses and those of opponents when locked into combat. paticularly promotions of two cavs that each has one promo that grants certen benefits when fighting against anti cavalry units must also inherit to Infantry class as well, but that's about coding and testing matter discussion)
 
So this means Tercio (Did Portugese also use this term too? Tercio once was a name of Spanish UU in Civ5) is a size of one unit uncombined?. And this means it is still valid to add Tercio for Spain as 'Anticav' choice (standard) or 'Infantry' choice (Modded, which i'm CURRENTLY working ogn this combined unit class rightnow and that's serious coding because it affect promotions both this unit class uses and those of opponents when locked into combat. paticularly promotions of two cavs that each has one promo that grants certen benefits when fighting against anti cavalry units must also inherit to Infantry class as well, but that's about coding and testing matter discussion)

The Tercio is one of the few times the game has ever had a single unit that is directly related to a historical unit that was in fact a single size: 3000 men.
I won't go into another of my tirades about the artificiality of the Unit Types in Civ, but a Tercio unit is one of many places where stuffing a unit into a single Category runs into trouble.
From the start (around 1530 CE) the Tercio combined a strong Pike component (about 50%) for an Anti-Cavalry function, but it also from the start had both arquebuses and crossbows as ranged (50%) and in the century or so after they were introduced the percentage of pikemen kept falling in the Tercio, the crossbows disappeared completely, the arquebus was replaced by the heavier musket, and a proportion of the infantry in the Tercio were armed with, first with halbards, and then short swords and small shields "Sword and Buckler Men" as they were called. These were a conscious copy of the Renaissance concept of the Roman legionary swordsmen, and they served to cut up enemy pikemen after they were locked in place by your own pikemen.

So, the Spanish Tercio was a single combat formation that combined anti-cavalry pikes, melee swordsmen, and ranged muskets, all in the same game unit. Lots of luck fitting it into a category. Also, the graphic will have 4 men juggling 3 different weapons, which will probably look a little strange . . .
 
The Tercio is one of the few times the game has ever had a single unit that is directly related to a historical unit that was in fact a single size: 3000 men.
I won't go into another of my tirades about the artificiality of the Unit Types in Civ, but a Tercio unit is one of many places where stuffing a unit into a single Category runs into trouble.
From the start (around 1530 CE) the Tercio combined a strong Pike component (about 50%) for an Anti-Cavalry function, but it also from the start had both arquebuses and crossbows as ranged (50%) and in the century or so after they were introduced the percentage of pikemen kept falling in the Tercio, the crossbows disappeared completely, the arquebus was replaced by the heavier musket, and a proportion of the infantry in the Tercio were armed with, first with halbards, and then short swords and small shields "Sword and Buckler Men" as they were called. These were a conscious copy of the Renaissance concept of the Roman legionary swordsmen, and they served to cut up enemy pikemen after they were locked in place by your own pikemen.

So, the Spanish Tercio was a single combat formation that combined anti-cavalry pikes, melee swordsmen, and ranged muskets, all in the same game unit. Lots of luck fitting it into a category. Also, the graphic will have 4 men juggling 3 different weapons, which will probably look a little strange . . .

'men with small shields 'sword and buckler man'.... Rodeleros? Did Spanish invented Rodeleros after Roman Legionairy and trained them to use Testodu formation (the 'Tortoise'.. level 1 promotions for Melee class which I combined with others into one level 1 promo--Infantry Formations, sounds good? since this class is Melee and Anticav combined)?

tercios_espa%C3%B1oles_rodelero.gif

^ Rodeleroes assaulting enemy pike square, they also joined Columbus first voyage and follow up conquistadores to Terra Incognita well. And these men fares better against Mesoamerican imperial troops.

And I Saw one mod that has Tercio as spanish UU. graphic representation is pre-RF 'pike and shot' with four conquistador stood behind four pikemen. here it goes

E5520CB07B5BFC157D051120C59D0E916A196532


^ Actually this comes from Deliverator's Moar Units Mod. He's a man who brougth me into civ6 modding wulin.
 
How many soldiers are represented within one hex of unit? regular units not Corps nor Army. does it varies with eras?

IF 'Corps' and 'Army' represents larger formations. does One hex without this level of organization is equal to regiments or companies of 2,000 men strong?

One hex is a typical city center. One might assume that a city center has about 10 square kilometers. Since only one unit can be placed per hex, you can assume that these units completely fill that space. If you assume 1 soldier takes about 1/4 m^2, there would be about 4 x 10 x 1000 x 1000 m^2 so a whopping 40 million soldiers per unit :mischief:

Wow :)
 
One hex is a typical city center. One might assume that a city center has about 10 square kilometers. Since only one unit can be placed per hex, you can assume that these units completely fill that space. If you assume 1 soldier takes about 1/4 m^2, there would be about 4 x 10 x 1000 x 1000 m^2 so a whopping 40 million soldiers per unit :mischief:

Wow :)

You need to pack 'em in a bit better. According to John Brunner the island of Zanzibar has enough room for Earth's 2010 population of 7 billion people if you stand them upright. I notice that Civ 6 Earth maps never allocate more than one tile to represent Zanzibar the island so.......
 
Knowing that you need 20 horses to train one unit of cavalry, and that usually you gat 1 horse for 1 man, I'd say a unit represent roughly 20 men. Give or take.
 
How many soldiers are represented within one hex of unit? regular units not Corps nor Army. does it varies with eras?

IF 'Corps' and 'Army' represents larger formations. does One hex without this level of organization is equal to regiments or companies of 2,000 men strong?
In my overhaul, I use values similar to what Boris and other posters suggested during similar discussion, ie ~300 men in ancient era up to ~10000 men in modern era (assuming division size for combat unit, and regiment size for support units)

I use modifiers to reflect the strength from higher number when you unlock higher organization level (a 1000 men "warrior" unit type being then stronger than a 300 men "warrior" unit, but also requiring more support)
One hex is a typical city center. One might assume that a city center has about 10 square kilometers. Since only one unit can be placed per hex, you can assume that these units completely fill that space. If you assume 1 soldier takes about 1/4 m^2, there would be about 4 x 10 x 1000 x 1000 m^2 so a whopping 40 million soldiers per unit :mischief:

Wow :)
Or you can use the Earth dimension as reference when using a map with world wrap and then the smallest possible hexes width would be larger than 100 km...
 
The Maori Toa is three, really strong, people.

It's particularly impressive that they're only stronger when they're 3,000 years old, and still capable of building industrial transport ships from scratch - and without any iron - to cross the ocean. Most soldiers would be a little long in the tooth by that point.
 
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