How Many Units for War?

Halt

Warlord
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I am currently playing Churchill on Monarch - Inspired by the this forum.

I am working on IV Drill Crossbowman...

Built a army which I thought was enough yet alas was way too little...

Rather than get into my specifics, how many of the following do you normally have before engaging in voluntary war in the first few hundred years of AD?

Crossbowman
Maceman
Elephant/Knights/HorseArchers
Cat/Treb
 
1-2 Crossbowmen
9-12 Macemen
4-6 Knights
10+ Cats/Trebs

Unless you want to devestate your opponent. Then build roads to their empire and spam cats/knights.
 
I'm no expert...

it depends how many cities the AI has an how well defended. scout around if you have open borders

how many cities do you want to capture (rather than raze) - you need to defend them - 1/2 per city ?

how heavily defended are they (you are going to need to sacrifice some catapults) - 2 per city ?

how well matched is the enemy - if they are equal in tech and well defended they are going to make mincemeat of your first wave of attackers

but presumably you will to reinforce your frontline as you advance (by building)

In any event my offensive stacks for serious business are pretty big. Minimum 3-4 cats, 4 elephants 3 maceman, some long bows for defending and for captured cities
 
Mostly catapults/trebuchets, around 20+ or so. 3-4 xbows, 3-4 maces, 3-4 pikes or elephants, 3-4 knights. don't forget to bring along city garrison longbows to defend your cities. alternatively, if you know the city won't be attacked by the ai because you are significantly stronger, you can just leave behind a pike or equivalent to deal with pillagers.
 
Rather than get into my specifics, how many of the following do you normally have before engaging in voluntary war in the first few hundred years of AD?
There's no real way to quantify this in advance since every game, and every war, will differ.

* If you're contemplating an attack, accurate intelligence is key. If you have a religion founded get a priest to spread the religion into the target city(s) ASAP. Get Line of Sight any way you can so you know what you're up against. If you have Open Borders send in an Explorer/Scout to see how the defenses are laid out. If it's an ocean city remember that Caravels can enter cultural borders even if you don't have Open Borders.

* Once you know what you face in the way of defense you can guesstimate what you're going to need to take that city. Once you figure you have enough to take the city, add a few more units just in case.

Tip: With one of your units selected (and well outside actual attack range) hold down the ALT key and right-click and hold the right mouse button down on the target city. You'll get the combat odds for that unit attacking that city. You can do this even when you're not at war with that civ and nowhere near close enough to attack.

* You MUST bring enough to do the job on the first try, which means over-estimate the number of units you're going to need.

* Bring 1 suicide catapult for every defensive unit. You won't need them all to suicide, but a 1:2 ratio of suicide catapults to defenders allows you to bring down the defensive bonus swiftly and soften up the defenders for your attack while retaining a reserve for dealing with the counter-attack SOD or with other city attacks. (The above might not make sense, so here's a fer-instance: If the city is defended by 6 units, bring 6 catapults. Use all 6 to take down the defense bonus then have 3 cats suicide assault the defenders. The 3 cats will almost certainly die - but in doing so they make the real attack by your macemen/swordsmen/whatever a cakewalk - and you have 3 left to deal with the SOD or take another city)

* SOD: Stack-Of-Doom. In the opening phase of the war the AI will counter-attack you with everything it can bring to bear. Your assault must bring sufficient units to hold what it takes. Bring defensive units with you (Archers/Longbowmen) Do not make the mistake of underestimating what the AI will throw into the fight. If you bring just enough to take the city and have one or two un-damaged defenders in the city after you take it... good luck keeping it.

* Make a note of where all your workers are before you attack. Make certain none of them are within range of a quick snatch by an enemy mounted unit when you declare war.

There's lots more, but half the fun is figuring this stuff out by trial and error. Have fun :goodjob:
 
I have a follow up question:

How many turns into the war do you prepare for? That is, do you build enough units to just take and hold the border cities before starting, or do you go whole hog and build enough units to wipe out that civ before you declare?

I've been trying to ween myself off overpreparation, since I've identified that as hampering my chances for success. Now I tend to build enough offensive units to take 2-3 cities and defensive units to hold those cities. Then I build during the war to resupply.
 
How many turns into the war do you prepare for? That is, do you build enough units to just take and hold the border cities before starting, or do you go whole hog and build enough units to wipe out that civ before you declare?
Have a realistic goal before you kick off the fight, and build to that goal.

Remember that the AI will "shoot his wad" with the counter-attack SOD, so all you really need to do is invade and then hunker down for a few turns until all his attackers have been expended. Once that happens you should be able to steamroll what's left of 'em unless it's modern era.

The later the era and the closer the AI tech to your own then the longer its going to take (since you can bank on your attack stacks suffering scads of collateral damage) so the goal from the outset needs to be realistic and minimalistic. Build enough to take out your targeted couple key cities and hold them (especially whatever city has his navy parked in it)

Reinforce like crazy and then see how it develops. You can't really plan out an entire war before it starts unless its ancient era and only a few cities in play. The old adage is true in Civ just as its true in real life:

No plan survives contact with the enemy.
 
3-5 maces, some long bows for defense, the left over riff raff of previous wars, and a whole lot of cats.
 
It's really important to have scouts or cavalry for recon- not just to know what the disposition of the enemy defenses are, but also to prepare for the previously mentioned counter-attack. You can save yourself from heavy losses if you have the appropriate units to counter your enemy. Train up individual units with different upgrades, for different purposes.

ie. Have a stack of city raider units for assaulting, and a stack of wilderness defense units to hold off the counter-attack.
 
2 Shock macemen or Crossbowmen
4-6 City Raider Macemen
2 elephants
3 pikes for garrison
3 longbow for garrison
2 Knights
1 medic chariot
4 accu-cats
1 barrage cat ( in case the counter attack catches me in the open)
4-6 CR trebs.

Basically planning to capture 2-3 cities and defeat the counterattack with that force..

Healed and re-inforced with more siege and garrison, I resume the advance.
 
dont need more than 3-5 macemen + 5-10 cats and maybe an elephant before declearing. Of course this assumes you'll get reinforcements along the way.
 
Do your math and your eyes, what are traits of the civ leader you are attacking? Does he have barracks, vassalage or theocracy? Always remember: good scouting/spying can turn the wave of war in your favor.
You will always need cats or trebs. always! Try to bring more than enough since an opponent that had endured a barrage of rocks will be severly injured.
 
Replied to a similar question here; maybe this helps.

J.
 
Here is an answer that is good for all era :

When you have more soldiers (in demographics screen) and more power (in graph screen) and an up-to-date balanced army.


read balanced as 50% siege units.
 
I'm often able to wage war effectively against a much stronger AI. I find it effective to declare war, fight on my turf when they send their own stack of death in, and then counterattack and take one of their cities, and then stuff starts to go my way.

For planning, I try to have at least 4-5 siege equipment for taking down city defenses and suiciding, but I don't set specific quotas. I try to have a counter for my most popular enemy unit: if they have a lot of mounted, I'll throw in more spears/pikes than I normally do. If they don't have any mounted units, my spears/pikes will be deployed to other locales along my borders or given medic duty.

It's really hard to set a fast rule. Generally, if you are going for a core city, bring swarms of units--more than a dozen. And usually it's way more than a dozen, especially as time progresses. For an outpost or small colony, though, you can get away with less.

I suggest the trial and error method myself. It worked for me!
 
2 Shock macemen or Crossbowmen
4-6 City Raider Macemen
2 elephants
3 pikes for garrison
3 longbow for garrison
2 Knights
1 medic chariot
4 accu-cats
1 barrage cat ( in case the counter attack catches me in the open)
4-6 CR trebs.

Basically planning to capture 2-3 cities and defeat the counterattack with that force..

Healed and re-inforced with more siege and garrison, I resume the advance.


I've had second thoughts. Usually I go earlier. As soon as I get longbowmen, before trebs, pikes, knights, or macemen. I just use their predecessor units instead. I know that I'm inclined to procrastinate, and that time and peace favors those sneaky A.I.
 
Here is an answer that is good for all era :

When you have more soldiers (in demographics screen) and more power (in graph screen) and an up-to-date balanced army.


read balanced as 50% siege units.

Disagree.
You don't need to outnumber the opponenet, just be more effective.
I'm generally at the bottom of the power graph until I have had a couple of wars. I'm rarely at the top.
I usually have the least troops, until I have pretty much won. Even then in the last game Asoka had more troops than me, even when I had four of his cities for my domination win.
Maybe it is my play style but I can rarely out build my opponents without seriosly hindering my economy

It's best to work out what you want to take in ten turns (when you can first sue/bleed them dry for peace), then build to that. Obviously if you want a hill top city guarded by longbowmen then take more siege.
If you want to prolong a war longer than ten turns you need to know you can reinforce fast enough. So I generally don't, I would rather make peace, regroup and prepare for my next war. Knowing I'll have extra cities to help my war effort.
 
best to be generic here, but knowing where units are is a great advantage.


-- City attacking units should number from 6-14 depending on how big the front is, OR how big the territory is.
--for open areas (reserve city attackers) then take between 8-20 units
-- medics should be balanced more to each stack you have, and to how many units in each stack (stack of 9 units is my personal max)
--anti units should be 1-3 for an invasion force OR single stack. (anti units being short hand for any unit with a Vs Promotion against siege weapons, cavalry, armor etc)
-- siege weapons are 8-12 for the entire invasion force, or balanced between a few stacks
--city defending units number 2 as a max for me.

**Special note**
once you obtain Rifling and Railroads, a Machinegunner is a must for any stack and for marking territory between two stacks (as to fill the gap)
 
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