How many units to take an early city state?

[Arent11]

There are some results floating around for the minimum number of units for a "direct" attack on an early city state (strength ~24) that heals:

(1) 4 warriors
(2) 3 war carts

However, what about a city that can not heal? As long as there is no warrior around that can break your siege & you can prevent a city from healing, it might be possible to slowly wear a city down & conquer it with even fewer units.

So, what's the smallest number of units you have used?

 

[Tamir Lenk]

3 warriors and an archer can take any city without walls. Just place the warriors on alternating hexes to get the cs under siege

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Frankly, 2 Archers and 1 Warrior can take a Civ city without walls, though I didn't test it on City States.

 

[Halcyan2]

3 warriors and an archer can take any city without walls. Just place the warriors on alternating hexes to get the cs under siege

Eh. That depends on the number of rivers present. If there are lots of rivers, you may need extra units to siege the city.

 

[CultureManiac]

Eh. That depends on the number of rivers present. If there are lots of rivers, you may need extra units to siege the city.

Do rivers affect sieges? That may explain why cities sometimes regain health even when I have three melee units around it.

 

[Arent11]

Do rivers affect sieges? That may explain why cities sometimes regain health even when I have three melee units around it.

AFAIK, rivers block zone of control.

Does a single enemy unit adjacent to the city center break a siege?

 

[Browd]

Rivers do block ZOC. Enemy units adjacent to city center do not matter--what matters is whether you have ZOC (not actual control) over each of the 6 tiles adjacent to the city center (ignoring tiles (like mountains ) that are impassable). You will know when you have a city under siege when the red siege indicator lights up on the city banner.

 

[juanpavo]

You will know when you have a city under siege when the red siege indicator lights up on the city banner.

Thanks, did not know that.

 

[Arent11]

Enemy units adjacent to city center do not matter--what matters is whether you have ZOC (not actual control) over each of the 6 tiles adjacent to the city center

If that is the case it should in principle be possible to take a city state with only 2 units. For example your initial warrior and a single war cart/other strong unit.

 

[CultureManiac]

Rivers do block ZOC. Enemy units adjacent to city center do not matter--what matters is whether you have ZOC (not actual control) over each of the 6 tiles adjacent to the city center (ignoring tiles (like mountains ) that are impassable). You will know when you have a city under siege when the red siege indicator lights up on the city banner.

Very helpful, thanks

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

If that is the case it should in principle be possible to take a city state with only 2 units. For example your initial warrior and a single war cart/other strong unit.

I agree that two units should suffice for placing a city under seige. One just needs one unit on one side of the city and the second unit on the directly opposite side of the city.

I'm not sure whether a Warrior and War Cart alone could capture the city though in a single series of attacks. They certainly could finish off the city, if they rested and healed for a second series of attacks, since the city can not heal.

Of course, to expedite city capture, one could simply add a Slinger or Archer than can deliver damage to the city without taking any.

 

[Arent11]

I'm not sure whether a Warrior and War Cart alone could capture the city though in a single series of attacks. They certainly could finish off the city, if they rested and healed for a second series of attacks, since the city can not heal.

Yes, healing units in enemy territory is slow. AFAIK only 5 hp per turn. That might take ages.

 

[Victoria]

In reality one requires some speed in said motions. Dallying too long oft limits how many foes one can dispatch before afternoon tea.

May one suggest 3 archers and a scout / lumpy wood weilder

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

In reality one requires some speed in said motions. Dallying too long oft limits how many foes one can dispatch before afternoon tea.

May one suggest 3 archers and a scout / lumpy wood weilder

The OP is asking what is the smallest number of units anyone used to capture a city state. I don't think he is necessarily asking for the optimal number. The theoretically smallest number of units that can capture a city state is two; just enough to put a city under seige and thus the city does not heal.

This is a different question from what is the optimal number of units and unit types to achieve for example 10 cities in 100 turns via rushing and warfare.

Otherwise, your three Archer suggestion is pretty much accepted practice (requires a beeline to Archery of course). I'm not so sure about the Scout; that is a very weak unit.

 

[Victoria]

Ok, a scout with a dog, it seems adequate when tried

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Starting with Sumeria, one would like to spam War Carts, but I'm not sure that is the best early rushing path. Beelining Archery while building three Slingers, and upgrading them to Archers just works so well in general. It's hard to discard that strategy for Sumeria, but we must, if we are to take full advantage of the War Cart.

The initial Warrior and two War Carts should be enough to take a City State by surprise. The initial Warrior and War Cart can scout for targets while the second War Cart is being built. Arrange the three attacking units around the target city to achieve a state of Seige, despite rivers that break Zone of Control.

 

[Captain Potato]

How much does the advice differ when playing as Germany? I was meaning to test this but haven't got round to it yet. A +7 bonus is huge.

 

[Arent11]

The OP is asking what is the smallest number of units anyone used to capture a city state. I don't think he is necessarily asking for the optimal number. The theoretically smallest number of units that can capture a city state is two; just enough to put a city under seige and thus the city does not heal.

This is a different question from what is the optimal number of units and unit types to achieve for example 10 cities in 100 turns via rushing and warfare.

Otherwise, your three Archer suggestion is pretty much accepted practice (requires a beeline to Archery of course). I'm not so sure about the Scout; that is a very weak unit.

Well, basically I'm asking for both. The minimum number is a good starting point & from there one could come up with the most "efficient" opening. The discussion right now, whether to use archers that require archery or use warrior + 2 war carts & what is faster/better is exactly what I'm aiming at. People in other threads have also mentioned that it might be even more efficient to hunt enemy settlers, but that feels somehow like cheating ^^

 

[4N4C0ND4]

Theoretically, you could conquer with only 1 warrior if the city is blocked by some mountains. But it's not very practical I reckon.
One must not forget that scouts are very useful for laying siege.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Doesn't the AI beat up Scouts trying to lay seige to their city? The AI should have a few extra Warriors to attack Scouts with. I never tried to capture cities with the aid of Scouts before; they were too busy scouting, plus I rarely built them anyway.