How many vassals should be possible?

[AnotherPacifist]

Since Dabur invoked the vote, here it is. I vote for unlimited.

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

So do I, there's no need for a vassal limit if you look at what's happened throughout history. Also, all the countries with over 4 vassals usually did it by capitulation. Either way, I think that you should have unlimited vassals. They're hard enough to get already so why put a limit in place?

 

[archontophoenix]

If there's some kind of threshold in the code for the AI to decide whether to become a vassal, another approach would be to have the threshold gradually rise after you have certain number of vassals. That way the number could be unlimited, but vassals would be progressively harder to get.

 

[Úmarth]

Who am I to disagree with Pacifist the Great?

 

[blizzrd]

I still reckon Pacifist needs a new nick. Wanting unlimited vassals by capitulation is hardly peace and hugs all 'round.

 

[Tboy]

So do I, there's no need for a vassal limit if you look at what's happened throughout history. Also, all the countries with over 4 vassals usually did it by capitulation. Either way, I think that you should have unlimited vassals. They're hard enough to get already so why put a limit in place?

Agreed.

Maybe Pacifist could be renamed 'AnotherHypocriticalPacifist'?

 

[Lone Wolf]

The only way to ensure world peace is to conquer the world. Natural.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Actually, I'm doing quite well with my current pacifistic English game (no declaration of war, just defend and strike back if declared upon). Got 4 spontaneous vassals (China late in the game did it spontaneously after I already had the Aztecs, Incans, Khmer and Portugal). The Aztecs declared war on me first in 1450, so I vassalized them too. That makes 5 possible with the current version.

 

[onedreamer]

I think they should be limited. Invoking realism isn't really a point since the vassalage system is completely unrealistic. Also, if you can make an example of some civ who vassalized the whole world.......

I think 5 is a good limit.

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

Mongolia almost did it if you don't include Africa and parts of the Middle East but that still leaves America, Australia and Japan out, so I guess you could say they vassalized most of the known world.

 

[coko]

Mongols had the most more than likely...I mean pretty much everyone they didn't murder would be vassals not Mongols...

 

[Úmarth]

I don't think the Mongols are a good example, yes individual cities had a high degree of autonomy in return for tribute but I don't think its really analogous to the vassalage of entire states you see in civ. I'm with onedreamer on this, the vassalage system isn't at all realistic so you can't really use historical arguments.

 

[Dabur]

a great morning to all ,


thanks for the idea AnotherPacifist

no limit ! hmmm , Rhye or anybody else would it be possible too change this simply in the code with a simple number

have a fine day

 

[onedreamer]

Mongolia almost did it if you don't include Africa and parts of the Middle East but that still leaves America, Australia and Japan out, so I guess you could say they vassalized most of the known world.

the "known world" is an interesting concept. In this case I'd say the Roman Empire has been bigger than the Mongolian one, same for the British one. The point is we're talking of the game here, unlimited vassals means being able to vassalize the WHOLE world, not the KNOWN world. And Mongolia didn't come remotely close to this, nor anyone else from the age of Dinosaurs.

 

[Úmarth]

The British Empire was actually (slightly) bigger than the Mongol Empire even in raw terms.</patriotism>

 

[kbk]

I'm reasonably content with the current vassal system, though I haven't tried a domination game yet. 5 or 6 should be all you'd realistically need anyway. I just don't want it to change the very awesome defensive pact/alliance system that is in the current game. This is one of the best political aspects of the mod, I think.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I hate to bump this thread, but I really REALLY need at least 6 vassals. I have to put my Carthaginian domination game on hold since I mistakenly vassalized Vikings, Mali and India who have no expansion potential (can't gift them cities). Ethiopia is fine as my vassal since they'll absorb most of Africa (and their cities cannot be demanded). I got to Inca in 1260 and despite being down to 1 city they will not vassalize (in the previous patches they would have spontaneously vassalized after I give them a map). And Khmer eventually went to Japan, despite me being almost triple their score. It's not just for vanity, but since Carthage has probably the smallest space to build cities without penalty, I need South America and Australia to be owned by my vassals. For example, just New Orleans was able to drive my expansion down from 2 stars to 1 star. I eventually collapsed in the 1730's despite having courthouses and jails everywhere and having built all the wonders up till then.

Just 2 more vassals would have saved me a lot of grief. (And what about intelligence agencies and security bureaus giving some stability?)

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

(And what about intelligence agencies and security bureaus giving some stability?)

I think this is an awesome idea because it makes historical sense, the more of these buildings a country has the safer they'd feel and they'd be less likely to revolt. If Jails give stability bonuses I don't see why Security Bureaus and Intelligence Agencys don't. They all help establish and keep order, so they should be treated in the same way.

 

[Verily]

For teh record, there's a small bug in the vassal coding which allows you to acquire more than four vassals. If one of your vassals dies/collapses/breaks free, sometimes weak AI nations will come calling requesting to be vassals in that same interturn--and you can accept as many as you want that offer it.

I once had nine vassals because my (respawned) Egyptian vassals collapsed, and the (respawned) Chinese, Vikings, (respawned) Carthaginians, Americans, Portuguese and Dutch all asked to be my vassals in the interturn; the Inca, Aztecs and Khmer were already vassals. (I was Rome.) Needless to see, Mercantilism saw me through the rest of that game!

The biggest problem with infinite vassals (from a balance standpoint) is that they remove the penalty for using Mercantilism.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Ah, mercantilism, perfect civic for police state/nationhood.