How shall we choose what civ to play

[DaveShack]

I've been giving nudges in most if not all the discussion threads to have someone else open the polls.

All this arguing from someone who responds in the thread on fair polling that if someone doesn't like a poll just open a new one?

Edit: Of course it is to be expected that such a close poll result would be hotly contested. The exact same poll options in the "opponents" poll are resulting in a very decisive result.

 

[Macha]

I'd select a civ but don't you think it's a bit early before you select what version of the game to play.

 

[jimkatalanos]

I vote Full random

 

[Methos]

I would have to agree with Donsig in post #20. It makes more sense to start broader and narrow it down based off the broad poll.

 

[donsig]

I've been giving nudges in most if not all the discussion threads to have someone else open the polls.

I hesitate to post polls because I would make private polls and I know you don't like them.

All this arguing from someone who responds in the thread on fair polling that if someone doesn't like a poll just open a new one?

Yes, I've said that and stand by that but we don't really want to get into polling wars do we? Isn't it much better to hammer out some (unofficial) procedures for creating fair polls? The first and most important thing we can all do is post proposed polls in the appropriate discussion thread - and better yet start a stickied thread (that we can subscribe to) where proposed polls can be linked to. Then we'll all know when a propsal is in the works and we can help make the poll fair before it's posted instead of arguing about its relative merits after the fact. I'd creat such a thread but I have lots of homework to do today and I can't sticky threads anyway. (Hint)

Edit: Of course it is to be expected that such a close poll result would be hotly contested. The exact same poll options in the "opponents" poll are resulting in a very decisive result.

Very true. We've learned by now (or should have learned) that we don't argue over things we agree on. We should also have learned by now that there will always be issues we are split on. The sooner we learn to properly handle such issues the better off the DG will be.

So, does anyone have suggestions for revising the poll I proposed?

EDIT: The current vote is 11/8/11/0/0. A tie for first but the third choice is exactly ten percent behind the other two.

 

[DaveShack]

Poll question:
How will we choose our leader / civ?

Options:
Choose one by a method to be determined later.
Use the in game randomizer.
Abstain

Link to discussion thread.
This poll will be open for 6 days.
This is a private poll.
You may vote for only one option.
Vote carefully since vote changes are not allowed in this poll.

It should be 4 days at most. I'd be happier with 3.

It's not possible to change votes on a private poll because we don't know what the original vote was. (Well, not normally anyway). However I must assert something here. No individual should be able to limit vote changes, other than the mod who may decide to fail to act. I'll listen to a poll result should the citizens as a group decide they don't want vote changes, and discuss with the other mods whether such a limitation is acceptable.

Also see this discussion on when the game should start.

 

[Methos]

So, does anyone have suggestions for revising the poll I proposed?

I agree with your proposed poll except for it being private. As I recall this was hotly debated in DG I, so to keep away from that arguing just make it public.

 

[DaveShack]

I agree with your proposed poll except for it being private. As I recall this was hotly debated in DG I, so to keep away from that arguing just make it public.

My turn to support donsig.

We never actually decided in DG I that polls had to be public, at least not in a method which ensured everyone was heard. There was a very ambiguous statement in the CoL but no preceeding discussion.

Right now, it would help me in the moderator role to see a few public polls. I won't go into details of why, let it suffice to say that one of the difficult things we do is made easier.

That said, it's the poll originator's right to choose public or private, until the citizens set a standard which says otherwise.

 

[Methos]

My turn to support donsig.

I had to read this several times and check to make sure it was you who said it!

We never actually decided in DG I that polls had to be public, at least not in a method which ensured everyone was heard. There was a very ambiguous statement in the CoL but no preceeding discussion.

I believe this was about the time I left the game. Way too much argueing for me.

That said, it's the poll originator's right to choose public or private, until the citizens set a standard which says otherwise.

So than currently we have no set method in our laws so it doesn't matter whether its public or private? Ok, that's fine by me. Since the law doesn't state it either way, than do it however you choose Donsig.

 

[Furius]

What difference does it make whether the poll is public or private?

 

[Methos]

What difference does it make whether the poll is public or private?

It makes all the difference if our laws state so.

 

[donsig]

It's not possible to change votes on a private poll because we don't know what the original vote was. (Well, not normally anyway). However I must assert something here. No individual should be able to limit vote changes, other than the mod who may decide to fail to act. I'll listen to a poll result should the citizens as a group decide they don't want vote changes, and discuss with the other mods whether such a limitation is...

We're getting into that area of demogame versus moderators now. If we decide as a group not to allow vote changes then moderators should accept this and back us up. Do I need to start a discussion about this so we can poll it before we decide anything else? Or can we have a gentleman's agreement not to change votes?

I don't mind a four day poll but think we should wait till this one ends before posting the new one. As for the public versus private poll I'd post a private poll but would not object to a public poll. The beauty of posting proposed polls ahead of time is that anyone can post the poll when agreememt is made on it by copying and pasting and making appropriate revisions as agreed upon in the thread.

 

[Furius]

It makes all the difference if our laws state so.

Well, yes... But is there any reason why our laws should say so?

 

[Methos]

Well, yes... But is there any reason why our laws should say so?

I don't think you're understanding the conversation, so let me make it simple for you. In the above posts anywhere you see where it states "DG I", read it as Demogame 1.

 

[DaveShack]

Well, yes... But is there any reason why our laws should say so?

I don't think you're understanding the conversation, so let me make it simple for you. In the above posts anywhere you see where it states "DG I", read it as Demogame 1.

Be gentle with the newcomers! Wait, you're both newcomers...

No, the question is why would we want polls to be public.

Early DG's, on Civ3, had an interesting feature. One or two elections during each term would have a vote total way above all the others, sometimes approaching more votes than we had citizens registered. I won't speculate on why, there are a few references to this in the archives if you really want to go hunting for it. Simply put, there were some citizens who were worried that outlanders were voting in our polls.

When public polls were added to the forum, the DG immediately adopted them as standard, to avoid the feelings of vote fraud that people had. Since then the membership group was added, so it's impossible to vote without having been vetted by a mod or group manager, so public polls aren't really needed any more for the fraud prevention purpose.

A second reason for using a public poll is to see if people are talking one way and voting another. This is useful if you're new to the game and still learning who you can trust and who you can't. It also provides political material should you end up in an election with someone who always does that.

A RL analogue to justify public polls is that we're like the congress for the people of the civ we're playing. Congressional votes are recorded so the people know how their representative voted. Some of us want the candidate's voting record at election time.

That was kinda long, but we have a long history.

 

[dutchfire]

I hesitate to post polls because I would make private polls and I know you don't like them.

Please, don't let the fact that he's a mod (or any other fact) stop you from doing what you think is right.

 

[Falcon02]

wow... effectively a 3 way tie....

 

[DaveShack]

A new discussion is available for this topic.

 

[ordinaryguy]

Maybe we should choose a type of game that would be appealing to the viewers. Based on that, select a civ to play with.

 

[chessplayer]

randomnize

PS: Hi ordinaryguy
PSS: Andspeakingabout our game, ARE YOU going to continue our MP game!?!?!?