How to beat Deity on Standard speed?

This is not your typical monger strategy where you raze cities, puppet or annex.

I don't need their cities. I need my vassal strong. This is vassal-monger strategy. In fact I raze the city to trigger his caputulation but then I stop the raze and give him back his city after several turns (he comes to ask for it). Strong vassal means strong sovereign, particularly so on Deity.

As you wish. Good day.
 
I wonder what it is about epic that makes it easier? Hmm. Maybe I should increase bonus scaling on the handicap yields.
I think its because of logistics. On Epic we have more time to move units, workers, missionaries, etc... So we have a bigger window to play compares to standard. Im fine with slower speed being easier like this though, make Standard a whole new level of difficulty.
 
I wonder what it is about epic that makes it easier? Hmm. Maybe I should increase bonus scaling on the handicap yields.
:lol:
Obviously, player has more turns for fooling AI units. More probably, a small military advancement gets the player enough time for doing something with it. I'm considering playing on Epic now, to see if I can brag of higher level :crazyeye:
 
I wonder what it is about epic that makes it easier? Hmm. Maybe I should increase bonus scaling on the handicap yields.
Insta-yields are way stronger with all the extra turns to plan around them, especially late game. Units still damage, heal, and move the same amount. TBH I think lengthy games would need a somewhat different approach in design.

Though you could just make them incredibly frustrating instead.
 
Minh, it all depends on how much warmongering you're willing/wanting to go through in order to win/enjoy the game? On that depends which civs I'd choose to play with and against, as well as what strategy to employ.
 
He is not bad player. I know him before. He is just frustrated from recent defeat on deity. He got defeat from island map recently, and maybe another time. Big deal. It is a game, can happen to experienced players to lose. Sometimes is bad luck and can be frustrating survive against all odds. Even G can lose on deity occasionally (but don't quote me on this). I lost one game a week ago. So what ?

When his mind clear from frustration after some time, I am sure he will view vassal-monger strategy in better light than today.
 
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He is not bad player. I know him before. He is just frustrated from recent defeat on deity. He got defeat from island map recently, and maybe another time. Big deal. It is a game, can happen to experienced players to lose. Sometimes is bad luck and can be frustrating survive against all odds. I lost one game a week ago. So what ?

When his mind clear from frustration after some time, I am sure he will view vassal-monger strategy in better light than today.
He didn't lose that game. Your strategy is solid, it's just the way you go about it is weird imo...I think it's better to fight early on and get an experienced army...it's actually kind of difficult to war an AI that went unchecked early and your plan of making 4 desert cities...what? However I do think your strategy of keeping vassals as strong as possible is interesting, though, it's just kind of hard to do in practice. Building Castles/Armories ASAP is a good idea if going Fealty, I agree.

Anyway... @Minh Le I lose/rage quit more than half of my Deity games so I'm not fully qualified to give advice, but I'll try anyway. In my experience, early Classical wonders go on turn 70-80 usually, so you'd get one or maybe two of them, and you need to really beeline it.

During a war, it's rare to conquer a city before the AI purchases or builds a new unit, so checking the enemy's gold reserves is a good idea. Early often I usually expect a Warrior or Archer to pop up out of thin air while I'm sieging a city.

I'm pretty sure you know this already, but everything on Standard takes 1/3 less time than on Epic, so keeping that ratio in mind can help. Turn 80 on Standard is Turn 120 on Epic. Religions usually go Turn 80-90+ in my experience.

It's not uncommon to be losing a war, tech to Knights and build a few, and then turn it around. AI is capable of this too. Tech changes during war is something less common on Epic I assume.

I like both warmongering and peaceful play and I don't think the two are too unbalanced against each other. Warmongering is a more standard approach imo though because peaceful play can really come back to bite you (too many times I am playing Progress and I have great yields but then I get invaded and it falls apart). I often need Authority's hammers just to survive in good shape. If you have difficulty with peaceful play I would probably go for a more war-heavy strategy.
 
The competition on Standard is tense. Well, i've figured out. I just did'nt competitive enough. It seems that I should plan on short term goal and adapt to the situation more than plan on long term goal as usual when playing on Epic, try to grab what available rather than race the AI for the impossible. I think I can improve now, thank you guys :thumbsup:
 
I wonder what it is about epic that makes it easier? Hmm. Maybe I should increase bonus scaling on the handicap yields.
Well the concept of human vs AI is that a human makes better decisions, but the AI has some raw power.

The slower the speed, the more decisions are made. So it makes that sense that slower speeds are easier for humans (especially war).
 
Here it is Minh. What I am talking about. 3 vassals on deity in mid-Renaissance.

I haven't revealed much of the world (supply cap is so severa than can't spend on a scout even) but this is 43 Civ game. The stats may not be that impressive to nerds like you on first sight but the important thing to remember is that I am surrounded by vassals. My army is now free to roam and harass the leaders. Nobody can pose direct threat to me anymore, my vassals are protecting me and all of them are very happy with me. Yes the leaders are about 300-400 points ahead of me but mostly because they have wonders.

My biggest issue at this point is supply cap. To solve this problem I will annex capitals from now on. There is no point, I think, to make more vassals than this. It is mid-game and I have to choose a victory condition. So far it is Authority-Artistry and I have to pick the third policy. Still considering what that should be.

The vassals.png Vassal-Monger.png Deity mid-Renaissance.png
 
By the way, this gameplay brought to my attention an issue with the AI. Which might be more of a theoretical interest than else that the coders might want to look at.

It seems like the AI doesn't know very well how to react to drastic changing conditions. It is completely unaware of its surroundings. Well it is AI after all.

In my gameplay I resorted to some city razing which provides nice territorial gaps after the city is razed. Territory with resources. The AI is known to be very aggressive at identifying such hot spots in the beginning of the game, often to the annoy of the player, but it turns out that the AI is terribly unaware at adapting to changing conditions later. I would raise a good city location and the AI is unaware of this new potential land at all. Instead of producing a settler quickly in 3-4 turns to settle at the newly opened spot, the AI simply keeps at its agenda and the nice spot remains idle.

A human player would immediately notice the change and settle there by changing plans temporarily to get advantage of the new conditions.

In other words the AI is unadaptable.
 
By the way, this gameplay brought to my attention an issue with the AI. Which might be more of a theoretical interest than else that the coders might want to look at.

It seems like the AI doesn't know very well how to react to drastic changing conditions. It is completely unaware of its surroundings. Well it is AI after all.

In my gameplay I resorted to some city razing which provides nice territorial gaps after the city is razed. Territory with resources. The AI is known to be very aggressive at identifying such hot spots in the beginning of the game, often to the annoy of the player, but it turns out that the AI is terribly unaware at adapting to changing conditions later. I would raise a good city location and the AI is unaware of this new potential land at all. Instead of producing a settler quickly in 3-4 turns to settle at the newly opened spot, the AI simply keeps at its agenda and the nice spot remains idle.

A human player would immediately notice the change and settle there by changing plans temporarily to get advantage of the new conditions.

In other words the AI is unadaptable.

Oh you’ve walked the DLL stack and found the bug? Please enlighten me where in the code.

G
 
I am not sure it is necessarily a bug. Intel makes already teraflop processors. But the AI still can't notice hot spots 5 hexes away. Because it is too busy with its agenda.
 
I am not sure it is necessarily a bug. Intel makes already teraflop processors. But the AI still can't notice hot spots 5 hexes away. Because it is too busy with its agenda.

Again, you're making gross overstatements. 'Completely unaware,' 'unadaptable,' perhaps it is just weighing options and decided that a risky settle isn't worth it? Hmm...

G
 
Lol that is the human explanation. As you will agree, the AI has no idea of what risk means. It is only aware of a set of instructions.
 
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