How to beat Deity on Standard speed?

[CrazyG]

Here it is Minh. What I am talking about. 3 vassals on deity in mid-Renaissance.

I haven't revealed much of the world (supply cap is so severa than can't spend on a scout even) but this is 43 Civ game. The stats may not be that impressive to nerds like you on first sight but the important thing to remember is that I am surrounded by vassals. My army is now free to roam and harass the leaders. Nobody can pose direct threat to me anymore, my vassals are protecting me and all of them are very happy with me. Yes the leaders are about 300-400 points ahead of me but mostly because they have wonders.

My biggest issue at this point is supply cap. To solve this problem I will annex capitals from now on. There is no point, I think, to make more vassals than this. It is mid-game and I have to choose a victory condition. So far it is Authority-Artistry and I have to pick the third policy. Still considering what that should be.

Playing with 43 civs changes the game drastically.

You have not won. You aren't the score leader. Are you the science or culture leader? What makes you think this strategy is good? You haven't revealed the world at all and Can you take that 5 city empire all the way to a victory? Show us. I think there will be a snowballing civ far away from you, and your position makes it so hard to deal with.

 

[Leondegrance]

Playing with 43 civs changes the game drastically.

You have not won. You aren't the score leader. Are you the science or culture leader? What makes you think this strategy is good? You haven't revealed the world at all and Can you take that 5 city empire all the way to a victory? Show us. I think there will be a snowballing civ far away from you, and your position makes it so hard to deal with.

I am aware of this. This is not over at all. All I did is to secure my backyard. Which is not a small thing.

This is the time to choose the third policy at mid-game. This is a cornerstone, the crossway. I have paused the game to consider what kind of victory shall pursue.

I wished I knew more about the map outlay in order to have a broader view of the world and how to attack it. But very few is revealed. China and Portugal are one of the leaders and are close to me. I may pick them one by one. Another option is to focus on science victory and reduce war spending. Culture victory is yet another option, I have Artistry full tree so it is an option. Shall see...but yeah it is not over yet.

But still, if I played peacefully I would have quit by now I guess. But I believe I have pretty good chance for the win here.

 

[Minh Le]

I am aware of this. This is not over at all. All I did is to secure my backyard. Which is not a small thing.

This is the time to choose the third policy at mid-game. This is a cornerstone, the crossway. I have paused the game to consider what kind of victory shall pursue.

I wished I knew more about the map outlay in order to have a broader view of the world and how to attack it. But very few is revealed. China and Portugal are one of the leaders and are close to me. I may pick them one by one. Another option is to focus on science victory and reduce war spending. Culture victory is yet another option, I have Artistry full tree so it is an option. Shall see...but yeah it is not over yet.

But still, if I played peacefully I would have quit by now I guess. But I believe I have pretty good chance for the win here.

But I didnt ask how to win on 43 civ? I asked for advices on Standard map, Standard Speed. 43 civs and OCC are completely different from a standard setup.

 

[Gazebo]

Lol that is the human explanation. As you will agree, the AI has no idea of what risk means. It is only aware of a set of instructions.

Incorrect. The AI may not weigh things the way you and I do, but it is capable of weighing options. But hey, you're the programmer, apparently, not me.

G

 

[Leondegrance]

But I didnt ask how to win on 43 civ? I asked for advices on Standard map, Standard Speed. 43 civs and OCC are completely different from a standard setup.

What ? You didn't say so from the beginning. Too late. I am sorry but now is 43 game.

 

[CppMaster]

@Leondegrance will you try playing your strategy on standard speed, standard size continents with 8 players on Deity difficulty? That would truly test your strategy. Otherwise, some might think that it works only in specific settings.

 

[tu_79]

@Leondegrance, AI will not resettle a good spot if you have units nearby. In fact, AI will not repair pillaged tiles if there are potential enemy units nearby. This is by design.

 

[Leondegrance]

@Leondegrance, AI will not resettle a good spot if you have units nearby. In fact, AI will not repair pillaged tiles if there are potential enemy units nearby. This is by design.

I see what you saying. Even the presence of neutral units may stop the AI. Not necessarily hostile units. Yeah I have noticed this behaviour. So could be. There is a CS nearby that plot.

If it was for enemy AI not settling, I wouldn't care, all the power to me. But it is about Isabel and I want her to settle there as she has only 2 cities and I want her stronger. So I am scratching my head why she is so idle. I cleared the path for her.

 

[Leondegrance]

@Leondegrance will you try playing your strategy on standard speed, standard size continents with 8 players on Deity difficulty? That would truly test your strategy. Otherwise, some might think that it works only in specific settings.

I already vassaled 3 Civs. So in your scenario that would mean 5 left. Or 4 counting me. Job half done. But with 43 Civs, job is far from done. There are 39 more to go.

 

[Minh Le]

I already vassaled 3 Civs. So in your scenario that would mean 5 left. Or 4 counting me. Job half done. But with 43 Civs, job is far from done. There are 39 more to go.

Its 43 civs on the map, which means there are very little land for the AI to settle cities. It hurts the AI a lot since it cant fully ultilize its crazy bonuses. On deity, standard map, the player will always have less cities than AI, and an AI with 9 or 10 cities can field an overwhelming force of units with the replenishment rate of 3 or 4 units per turn or even more. That means the problem is not taking AI as vassal, the problem is whether you can win war vs them or not.

 

[CrazyG]

I already vassaled 3 Civs. So in your scenario that would mean 5 left. Or 4 counting me. Job half done. But with 43 Civs, job is far from done. There are 39 more to go.

You sure have a lot of confidence in this strategy that, when used on very different game settings, still hasn't won a game yet.

 

[Leondegrance]

Look at her. Ridiculous. What is her problem ? I razed two Greek cities to open that peninsula to the north for her and she is doing nothing about it. You know what would annoy me further than this ? If Portugal comes all the way and settles there.

Oh wait, I see one Shoshone settler right next to the CS headed exactly there. You must be kidding me Isabel. You know I will have to warn the Shoshone not to even think about settling near me. Hopefully his settler will make a detour.

 

[randomnub]

You could try settle that land and then gift her the new born city, given that you already did some conquering it shouldn't alter your policy aquisition (maxcitynum staying the same).

Anyway, that's a lost game. Or 43civs is really very different. I can say that because at t225 your science/culture output is lagging and, while vassals can protect you (as long as Isa builds some city and upgrade her units sadly I think she's beyond recovery) , your happiness and supply cap aren't enough to go on the offensive and deal with the runaways civs.

 

[Leondegrance]

You could try settle that land and then gift her the new born city, given that you already did some conquering it shouldn't alter your policy aquisition (maxcitynum staying the same).

Anyway, that's a lost game. Or 43civs is really very different. I can say that because at t225 your science/culture output is lagging and, while vassals can protect you (as long as Isa builds some city and upgrade her units sadly I think she's beyond recovery) , your happiness and supply cap aren't enough to go on the offensive and deal with the runaways civs.

It crossed my mind to settle there myself too. After all I razed two cities at that vicinity.

But here is something I never understood in vox. I miss the vanilla mechanics where you can freely gift cities. In vox it says "you don't have tradeable cities". Never understood what is the reason for this. So I am not aware how to gift cities. I know they sometimes ask for a city, that is how I gifted to Harun one of my own cities, but no idea how to initiate the exchange myself.

Whether the game is winnable or not is pure speculation at this point.

 

[randomnub]

Hah sorry, I actually forgot selling your own cities has been blocked (possibly to prevent exploits like selling a 1 pop city you just founded in industrial era for 1000gpt...) and you can only sell cities previously owned by the AI. I do wonder, why did you raze such a city? I see an academy and decent dirt, could have been worth sell or gift later to the previous owner (Isabella?) if you wanted stronger vassals.

 

[Leondegrance]

Hah sorry, I actually forgot selling your own cities has been blocked (possibly to prevent exploits like selling a 1 pop city you just founded in industrial era for 1000gpt...) and you can only sell cities previously owned by the AI. I do wonder, why did you raze such a city? I see an academy and decent dirt, could have been worth sell or gift later to the previous owner (Isabella?) if you wanted stronger vassals.

Balance of Power. Alexander was becoming extremely dangerous, he had a lot of cities, pincering me from west and east. With 3 city states around, Alexander could become too powerful. Balance of Power. And also because I needed to trigger his capitulation and to make a point to him that I mean business.

You are right that I could have not razed the cities fully. But I did. Because I am sympathetic to Isabel. Sometimes emotional feelings can have impact on world history.

Are you sure that foreign cities can be gifted ? I don't have this impression. Otherwise I would gladly gift conquered cities to my vassals.

EDIT: I decided the third policy to be Rationalism. Two reasons. Obviously science victory. And because with limited supply cap in order to remain militaristically viable I need advanced units, as a compensation. But I will also remain monger active. China is next to Arabia, very close.

 

[CrazyG]

@Leondegrance
Post your demographics, how many social policies, and how many techs you have and we can actually assess how well you are doing. I'm very skeptical that you are winning with 344 science on turn 225.

If you plan to win by domination, rationalism over imperialism is a terrible choice. Honestly the more you post, the more you reveal you aren't that familiar with this game. For comparison, in the last photojournal I did as the Celts I had more than 600 science on turn 200 with 7 cities and no vassals, and I was still struggling to keep up with other civs.

 

[Leondegrance]

@Leondegrance
Post your demographics, how many social policies, and how many techs you have and we can actually assess how well you are doing. I'm very skeptical that you are winning with 344 science on turn 225.

If you plan to win by domination, rationalism over imperialism is a terrible choice. Honestly the more you post, the more you reveal you aren't that familiar with this game. For comparison, in the last photojournal I did as the Celts I had more than 600 science on turn 200 with 7 cities and no vassals, and I was still struggling to keep up with other civs.

I will post more stats for you to evaluate my strategy at the end of the game. Yes a hundred turns ago my science was 344, but now is 1800.

I am not too behind from the leaders. You see Japan is number 2. But my spy reported that there is nothing to steal from him because we have eclipsed them. Pocatello is probably 2 technologies ahead of me. I have chances to win, is early to say yet, there is quite a lot yet before the space race starts.

I have 4 vassals and just about to make them 5 in several turns. And then I will march my army to the south to harass China. The supply cap is a problem currently but I just annexed 2 cities and it will normalize when they stop resisting.

Imperialism is good here, but Imperialism with Rationalism is even better. I may forego some of the tenets and pick a few Imperialism policies. I am already in tier 2 tenets and picked the most important ones there. Rationalism by the way, although it looks underwhelming, it can become critical in a tight space race. Being able to buy few great scientists just when you need them is cool and the 25% yield bonus on spending a GS is pretty cool.

 

[Owlbebach]

I'm very skeptical that you are winning with 344 science on turn 225.

I used to play with 22 civs and i can say for sure that it is much easier than 8-10. AI is not that smart, they get angry at everyone around them because of forward settling which leads to lots of "everyone vs everyone" wars and kills their economy. I bet that 43 civs has the same problem.

Yes a hundred turns ago my science was 344, but now is 1800

Thats also very low. On turn 330 you should be building your space ship and you are only researching Atomic Theory. You are whole era behind. In my last game i had 1000 science and 1200 culture per turn on turn 325 on Epic

 

[Leondegrance]

I used to play with 22 civs and i can say for sure that it is much easier than 8-10. AI is not that smart, they get angry at everyone around them because of forward settling which leads to lots of "everyone vs everyone" wars and kills their economy. I bet that 43 civs has the same problem.


Thats also very low. On turn 330 you should be building your spacwe ship and you are only researching Atomic Theory. You are whole era behind. In my last game i had 1000 science and 1200 culture per turn on turn 325 on Epic

Don't you get it ? If I played 8 Civs the game would be over by now.