How to beat Deity on Standard speed?

[CrazyG]

This conversation should really end, because its a complete derailment on this topic. But.........

Pocatello is probably 2 technologies ahead of me

What do you mean by probably? You can check how many techs another player has. You can check how many social policies they have. You are just now taking your third policy? In a normal game, you have ideologies with like 10 tenets by turn 344. There are players winning via spaceships, and tanks and stealth bombers conquering the world. In a normal Deity game, the AI would have had nuclear weapons a long time ago and you are just getting them now.

Don't you get it ? If I played 8 Civs the game would be over by now.

You don't realize how much weaker the AI is when you play with 43 civs.
Take a look at this community game~https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...nals-ii-the-celts-new-players-welcome.636685/
I get to my ideology on turn 230, and in that situation I'm still barely ahead of the AI.

 

[Owlbebach]

Don't you get it ? If I played 8 Civs the game would be over by now.

You might be surprised but the fact that you vassalized 2 out of 8 AIs in the game does not mean that you won. Like at all. I sugest you to play Standard Pangea with 8-10 civs and see yourself.

 

[Leondegrance]

You might be surprised but the fact that you vassalized 2 out of 8 AIs in the game does not mean that you won. Like at all. I sugest you to play Standard Pangea with 8-10 civs and see yourself.

According to your logic the less Civs the harder the game.

I have one question for you. Why 8 ? Why not just 2 ? If you are such a hardcore player why don't you play 2 Civ games instead ?

 

[Minh Le]

According to your logic the less Civs the harder the game.

I have one question for you. Why 8 ? Why not just 2 ? If you are such a hardcore player why don't you play 2 Civ games instead ?

Please! We are discussing about a normal game, standard setup, standard map, standard speed here. If you want to show off your "strategy" on 43 civs, please creat your own thread. Or try to play a normal pangea map with standard setting as Owlbebach suggested and share your impression, it would be very welcome.
We wont compare standard to 43 civs or OCC because they are completely different.

 

[civplayer33]

Please! We are discussing about a normal game, standard setup, standard map, standard speed here. If you want to show off your "strategy" on 43 civs, please creat your own thread.

Also, keep your word, please:

If you did not appreciate my strategy then I will no longer tell you about powerful strategies.

It seems the people here don't appreciate your strategy, sooo...

 

[CrazyG]

I wouldn't call a strategy powerful if I haven't won a game with it.

 

[Leondegrance]

Please! We are discussing about a normal game, standard setup, standard map, standard speed here. If you want to show off your "strategy" on 43 civs, please creat your own thread. Or try to play a normal pangea map with standard setting as Owlbebach suggested and share your impression, it would be very welcome.
We wont compare standard to 43 civs or OCC because they are completely different.

Yes you are right to say that we should compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges. I am not refuting this.

What I don't understand is a few people arguing that 43 is for losers. I don't think so and I am compelled to refute their mythology. 43 presents its own challenges.

Look, on deity you have not just 8 buffed Civs but a whole lot of them. The chances to get beaten to religion, for example, gets high indeed. The chances to get beaten to a wonder gets higher. More Civs that need to be culturally influenced. More space racers, the competition to CS ally gets very tough, the sheer size of map makes it very tough to reach a particular opponent if he is far and likely you will encounter resistance from his allies on your way, and on and on.

I am sure 8 Civ also presents challenges of its own too. But just don't downplay 43 Civ games because you are mightily wrong.

 

[Minh Le]

Yes you are right to say that we should compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges. I am not refuting this.

What I don't understand is a few people arguing that 43 is for losers. I don't think so and I am compelled to refute their mythology. 43 presents its own challenges.

Look, on deity you have not just 8 buffed Civs but a whole lot of them. The chances to get beaten to religion, for example, gets high indeed. The chances to get beaten to a wonder gets higher. More Civs that need to be culturally influenced. More space racers, the competition to CS ally gets very tough, the sheer size of map makes it very tough to reach a particular opponent if he is far and likely you will encounter resistance from his allies on your way, and on and on.

I am sure 8 Civ also presents challenges of its own too. But just don't downplay 43 Civ games because you are mightily wrong.

Looking at the data you provide, the yield you have and the progress of the game, I could say that on 43 civs the AI progress significantly slower than on standard game. The reason could be the lack of land for AI to settle their cities, which means overall they are much weaker than normal, on all aspect. I've suspected this on island map too, because AIs are much slower on Island map than on land base map, because the lack of land for cities.

 

[Stalker0]

My only thought on this whole back and forth, and then I will bow out.

People are making the same mistake they are accusing Leondegrance of....people have already admitted that civs are weaker on 43 civs….and yet people are using comparisons like "your only making 1800 science, no way your keeping up with the AI" or "you should build your spaceship on Turn 330...your way too far behind". The 43 civ game is completely different, so using your comparisons (created from standard type maps) to judge the strategy is a waste of time.

Of course the reverse is also true. Spending effort talking about this strategy on a 43 civ map does not help the OP, who is asking for help on regular maps. So while the strategy may be worth its own thread, it is should not be discussed here.

 

[Gazebo]

This thread was started by @Minh Le to discuss standard setting Deity. This is not a urinary olympiad as to who is better or worse at Deity. OCC, 43-civ, Duel rush challenge...those aren't standard settings. Please stay on topic, all, and discuss the matter at hand.

G

 

[Minh Le]

One more thing I want to ask is the build order. I tried to calculate yield and effects of each building in order to decide what to build, but it seems I still dont do it very effectively. For example, I am Korea and I have the option to build the UB in my one of my secondary cities. But it will take very long to build (20 turns) while I can build a shrine, or a barrack in half amount of turn, and even if I build the UU, I dont have enough food and citizen to work the specialist slot. So what should I build in this situation?

 

[CrazyG]

One more thing I want to ask is the build order. I tried to calculate yield and effects of each building in order to decide what to build, but it seems I still dont do it very effectively. For example, I am Korea and I have the option to build the UB in my one of my secondary cities. But it will take very long to build (20 turns) while I can build a shrine, or a barrack in half amount of turn, and even if I build the UU, I dont have enough food and citizen to work the specialist slot. So what should I build in this situation?

Generally speaking, I would go with the shrine, then the barracks (you have arenas?) This depends on how valuable faith is though.

Korea's UB is a bit strange in that its okay to wait to build it. Its a high priority in your capital (do you have tradition?), but you probably value production more than science in other cities.

 

[Minh Le]

Generally speaking, I would go with the shrine, then the barracks (you have arenas?) This depends on how valuable faith is though.

Korea's UB is a bit strange in that its okay to wait to build it. Its a high priority in your capital (do you have tradition?), but you probably value production more than science in other cities.

Yeah ofc I get it asap in my capital. One more thing is the national wonder. When and why you get them? I always delay the university to later when I need a scientist, but by doing this I lose the culture from tech. Is it worth? Also If I plan to go Artistry, I always delay the national wonders until I get the policy which give GAP on completion of them.

 

[Leondegrance]

Unfortunately, I got beaten in the space race by Ethiopia by 16 turns. Well...it was an experience.

I chose Autocracy and this was a mistake. Autocracy doesn't work very well in a space race. Rationalism on the other hand proved to be correct choice, spammed lots of Great Scientists at the end. I actually still had real chances to win but got beaten to CERN by 2 turns. These two free technologies were enough to secure the win, though likely by a dramatic margin at the end but should have been just enough because researching them took me about 15 turns.

I reached Hubble Telescope as well very early but unfortunately needed 3 more policies to start building it. This policy requirement for Hubble is sort of too severe, but that's how it is currently.

Here is the final stats. One can notice the high approval, in fact rank 1; this is because I had 6 vassals at the end. This means that vassal strategy is very viable for Diplomatic win as well. Diplo-vassal strategy however is a topic for another discussion somewhere else. Here I chose to pursue science victory but lost at the end. This doesn't mean that science victory is not possible via dedicated vassal strategy; it is just that I didn't make the right choice with Ideology and other fine tuning can certainly lead to success.

 

[CrazyG]

Yeah ofc I get it asap in my capital. One more thing is the national wonder. When and why you get them? I always delay the university to later when I need a scientist, but by doing this I lose the culture from tech. Is it worth? Also If I plan to go Artistry, I always delay the national wonders until I get the policy which give GAP on completion of them.

I've never tried delaying the national wonders for the GAP as tradition. I don't think its worth it. You want the national monument ASAP, and the scrivener's office is an old (and very good) building by that stage. Oxford is great, usually the reason I build a university is not for the immediate scientist slot, but so I can build oxford. I think pursuing oxford quickly, but otherwise mostly ignoring science is a good move. I suppose you can collect the bonus for East India Company.

 

[Minh Le]

I've never tried delaying the national wonders for the GAP as tradition. I don't think its worth it. You want the national monument ASAP, and the scrivener's office is an old (and very good) building by that stage. Oxford is great, usually the reason I build a university is not for the immediate scientist slot, but so I can build oxford. I think pursuing oxford quickly, but otherwise mostly ignoring science is a good move. I suppose you can collect the bonus for East India Company.

I think I underestimate the yield from national wonders. That is definitely somthing I could improve on.

 

[Owlbebach]

I always delay the university to later when I need a scientist, but by doing this I lose the culture from tech.

I always try to build it ASAP. Culture is quite significant actually, also you get Academy that is very significant science boost at that stage of the game (i usually enter Medieval with Education, except when i play very aggressive and want to get Alhambra)

According to your logic the less Civs the harder the game.

I have one question for you. Why 8 ? Why not just 2 ? If you are such a hardcore player why don't you play 2 Civ games instead ?

https://brilliant.org/wiki/extrema/