I've played two games on Deity now and on both I have had the same problem, extreme unhappiness from differing ideologies. I am tending to get second or third ideology and so pick one that hasn't already been taken (for the extra policy) and then the AI tends to split 2/3/3 on the others, always picking the one they prefer/ with the most free tenets. This is causing large unhappiness in my empire. How can I negate this? I can't seem to get enough votes for passing world ideology but maybe I should focus on the congress more in non-diploV games.
How to deal with Ideology Unhappiness
- Thread starter Lukasper
- Start date
Essentially the problem is that the ai is out producing you in culture and tourism. There are two fixes for this, either you have to be willing to follow the most influential culture (and miss out in the free tenets) or you have to put more effort into producing enough culture and tourism to shield yourself from influence. Both ways present a compromise, but I guess that's how it's intended.
In some situations you can just force through it. Usually this case comes about if you've picked autocracy and are going for domination. Autocracy has some great happiness tenets and chances are you're on your way to taking out the cultural powerhouse anyway.
In some situations you can just force through it. Usually this case comes about if you've picked autocracy and are going for domination. Autocracy has some great happiness tenets and chances are you're on your way to taking out the cultural powerhouse anyway.
There are several strategies for dealing with Ideological Unhappiness on Deity.
1. Wait before you adopt one - Figure out via the Tourism screen which civs are going to dominate in terms of tourism, then once they adopt one, follow suit.
2. Beeline for the happiness tenets in your ideology. As someone who plays Autocracy, this naturally refers to namely the one that grants +2 happiness from all military exp buildings. For Order it's the one that gives happiness from monuments and science buildings. For Freedom....you shouldn't be having happiness problems on Freedom.
3. Sell off your conquered cities to other AIs. Assuming you're playing a warlike game...I'm assuming that's the case since you shouldn't otherwise be having happiness problems.
This one is probably the most overlooked and powerful tool in the warmongers arsenal for managing ideological unhappiness.
You can first sell off a city for peanuts to an AI that you have a DOF with or who's friendly with you at the least. Then once you've conquered a neighbouring city, you can now sell it to that AI for massive gains, since the AIs always disproportionately values cities that share a border with them.
4. However you should always have in mind that one of your goals is to capture enough great works (through conquest, of course) to eventually produce your own Tourism that can ward off the AIs. Remember the culture tree is a powerful source of happiness. I almost always max out the Commerce tree for the huge boost you get from the policy that grants +2 from every luxury (you can put this off to the late game when you've got more luxuries from war).
1. Wait before you adopt one - Figure out via the Tourism screen which civs are going to dominate in terms of tourism, then once they adopt one, follow suit.
2. Beeline for the happiness tenets in your ideology. As someone who plays Autocracy, this naturally refers to namely the one that grants +2 happiness from all military exp buildings. For Order it's the one that gives happiness from monuments and science buildings. For Freedom....you shouldn't be having happiness problems on Freedom.
3. Sell off your conquered cities to other AIs. Assuming you're playing a warlike game...I'm assuming that's the case since you shouldn't otherwise be having happiness problems.
This one is probably the most overlooked and powerful tool in the warmongers arsenal for managing ideological unhappiness.
You can first sell off a city for peanuts to an AI that you have a DOF with or who's friendly with you at the least. Then once you've conquered a neighbouring city, you can now sell it to that AI for massive gains, since the AIs always disproportionately values cities that share a border with them.
4. However you should always have in mind that one of your goals is to capture enough great works (through conquest, of course) to eventually produce your own Tourism that can ward off the AIs. Remember the culture tree is a powerful source of happiness. I almost always max out the Commerce tree for the huge boost you get from the policy that grants +2 from every luxury (you can put this off to the late game when you've got more luxuries from war).
I am not the best player, so for me, this is a pretty common conundrum: Get free tenants (and unhappiness) or pass on the free tenants? Two free tenants is very attractive, so for Order I beeline to the low hammer factories, and for Freedom the six Foreign Legion troops. Then I try and get Kremlin or SoL. Once my factories are all built and/or the WW is done (by me or an AI), then I feel less vested, and feel like I am now in a win/win situation. I try and stay in my Ideology, but if something else passes as World Ideology switching is pretty much inevitable, and switching sooner is better than latter (so long as I have the freebies and WW race is over). Any game where I avoid switching twice is okay with me. It is all about lowered expectations!
consentient
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Culture/Science: Be the first to ideology, pick Freedom, choose Specialist food and Avant Garde as free policies, and choose Universal Suffrage for your next policy.
Diplo: Pass World Ideology to suit the one you have.
Domination: Win before Ideologies, or in any case go Autocracy and laugh like crazy at how happy the oppressed people of your empire are.
All of these can be helped with religion.
Diplo: Pass World Ideology to suit the one you have.
Domination: Win before Ideologies, or in any case go Autocracy and laugh like crazy at how happy the oppressed people of your empire are.
All of these can be helped with religion.
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
Yeah, all of those can help you keep afloat:
Freedom: Happiness from banks, water mills and Universal Suffrage
Order: happiness from Monuments (?!), workshops and factories
Autocracy: lol
At worst, you will be pressured for around -30, which means your policies should be at least able to offset that. In my experience, it's really no difference if you're +1 or +50. Obviously the more the better but I think it only directly influences your Culture if you went Aesthetics, but in that scenario you should be pressurizing everyone else and not vice versa, so you shouldn't be running low on smilies in that scenario.
Naturally, having a religion with Pagodas and/or Mosques is really good. If everything else fails, buy a lux from AI for 28gpt and hope you don't need to renew that particular deal.
What I tend to overlook is early scouting causing me to not meet enough early CSs, some of which offer direct happiness for $$$, other via luxuries you may or may not have. Of course, don't waste money on a CS that has a copy of the lux you have already.
I would *not* recommend passing World Ideology if you're in the minority, as that tends to cheese off everyone more than usual. I tried that a couple of times and ended with 30+ turns of pointless wars in which nobody attacked anybody but all diplomacy went belly up and that includes locking up CSs.
I mentioned numerous times that even though I have around 700 hours of this game (most on Deity), I struggle with happiness myself A LOT
Freedom: Happiness from banks, water mills and Universal Suffrage
Order: happiness from Monuments (?!), workshops and factories
Autocracy: lol
At worst, you will be pressured for around -30, which means your policies should be at least able to offset that. In my experience, it's really no difference if you're +1 or +50. Obviously the more the better but I think it only directly influences your Culture if you went Aesthetics, but in that scenario you should be pressurizing everyone else and not vice versa, so you shouldn't be running low on smilies in that scenario.
Naturally, having a religion with Pagodas and/or Mosques is really good. If everything else fails, buy a lux from AI for 28gpt and hope you don't need to renew that particular deal.
What I tend to overlook is early scouting causing me to not meet enough early CSs, some of which offer direct happiness for $$$, other via luxuries you may or may not have. Of course, don't waste money on a CS that has a copy of the lux you have already.
I would *not* recommend passing World Ideology if you're in the minority, as that tends to cheese off everyone more than usual. I tried that a couple of times and ended with 30+ turns of pointless wars in which nobody attacked anybody but all diplomacy went belly up and that includes locking up CSs.
I mentioned numerous times that even though I have around 700 hours of this game (most on Deity), I struggle with happiness myself A LOT
consentient
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You can't be in the minority if you're the only one with an ideology. Pass it at the first vote in the Modern Era.
But actually, I pass it even if it annoys people because I prepare for war when playing defensive. Just build a few units. Pay anyone who will accept bribes to vote for your ideology. Many of them will even switch after World Ideology is passed.
This is good point that has not come up on this thread before. Dont switch unless you will be at -20 (net) for 5+ turns and in danger of losing a city.
I disagree with this as the anger only lasts until a few civs flip. It is great fun. What is bad though is proposing Word Ideology and not having it pass. That gets you all the hate and none of the good effects.
adcarrymaokai
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Bend over and adopt Order.
consentient
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I don't think I've ever had to switch ideologies because of unhappiness. I really think there are a lot of players out there who aren't doing everything they can to maximise their happiness. What are you doing to have these happiness problems, people? If you build all the buildings you can, and take all the policies, and keep your culture output as high as possible. Part of the problem may also be that people are coming really late to the game as far as ideologies are concerned. Maybe they're not using Oxford for Radio? I'm really stumped. I'd love to help people out. Maybe provide a (non-map-pack-reliant) save and I can have a look at how you could get happier?
Oxford for Radio is no brainer, and the SP picks for maximizing happiness are pretty easy to spot. A big part of my problem is certainly not teching fast enough. Despite all the good advise on these boards, my games go too long -- but it does keep things interesting! That said, getting an ideology late makes that part of the game easier -- since I then know whose ideology to follow!
Anyway, I have more empathy for OP than perhaps I care to admit...
Anyway, I have more empathy for OP than perhaps I care to admit...
Nigel_Tufnel2
King
You should usually not be influenced too badly if you go Order. One way to have no trouble with pressure is to plan for Order (especially if you went Tradition) and put at least 2 into Patronage. Consulates is a very powerful policy, esp if you get it early. This will help you later with CS allies and winning votes/elections.
Like consentient said, get to Radio ASAP (I usually skip Industrialization), it often only takes one GS bulb. Make sure you have a decent faith game going early, so that you can faith buy a GE the turn before Radio to build Eiffel. Sometimes that is my only significant tourism, although I usually build/GE Broadway as I have GMs lying around and the AI is slow to tech to Radio.
Also, make sure to save all GA and GW - burn a GA for a GAge as WF starts, and burn the second when that one is about to fade. (Don't forget to bribe the AI into some wars if you can to detract their hammers from WF.) Burn the GWs for policies on/after 8 turns after you've won WF. You will get massive culture for those 20 turns after WF, which will help a lot to defend against AI tourism. I almost always propose WF first, and make sure all cities will have Workshops up by the time the vote comes.
Then the next cycle, propose your Ideology. I have had many games where either no or only one AI has an Ideology yet. Since you have hit Modern Age, your CS allies will count towards your vote count. As long as you have fulfilled as many CS quests as you can, and laid out plenty of cash, you should be WC Leader, and so you should pass your ideology easily.
(Unless Alex is in the game 
)Usually my first 2 or 3 tenets are happiness tenets in any ideology. This should offset any negative Ideology pressure.
You only run in trouble if you think the additional happiness from Ideology would solve your already existing unhappiness problem.
If I am not the first to pick an Ideology, and I assume unhappiness due to picking one, I delay it until shortly before/same turn as I get a natural policy. This way, I can pick 3 happiness tenets right off the start. If, because of the delay, I am not the first to that Ideology anymore, I get less pressure from the outside, which is fine as well.
You only run in trouble if you think the additional happiness from Ideology would solve your already existing unhappiness problem.
If I am not the first to pick an Ideology, and I assume unhappiness due to picking one, I delay it until shortly before/same turn as I get a natural policy. This way, I can pick 3 happiness tenets right off the start. If, because of the delay, I am not the first to that Ideology anymore, I get less pressure from the outside, which is fine as well.
adcarrymaokai
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You can switch ideologies even if your empire is happy, but when a certain threshold of public opinion has been reached.
consentient
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Yes, but why would you? You lose social policies. Seems way too high a price to pay just to appease the psychopathic AI.
Maybe if you are way ahead of the AI and think you can snag SoL and Prora? I have played with trying to get the free 6 FL then switching ASAP into Order or Autocracy. It very much seems sub-optimal as compared to just trying to make Freedom work.
No, but you are forced to pick an ideology eventually, and even the 1st level ideology tenants are better than most of what is available from most of the non-ideology SP.
consentient
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Freedom works just great. If a person picks Freedom and ends up losing, it won't be because they picked Freedom but because they did something else wrong. For example, allow Sejong to tech unmolested and have him launch first: always a bad idea.
A few months ago when I sucked at peaceful play, I wondered how it was I could take the tech lead and lose it again. Then I found the answer: RAs. Even 5 or 6 RAs in your game can make the difference between comfortably winning and losing. And with Freedom, you don't really need to do anything special. If you're go for a CV you just need to maximise tourism, and with SV you just need to buy the parts. I can't even believe there is a debate about Freedom vs. Order. Freedom absolutely owns Order. Even a part-time SVer like me can see that.
If you want a peaceful DiploV, CV or SV, go Freedom.
If you want a DomV and reach the Modern Era or build 3 factories, go Autocracy.
I can't really think of a reason to go Order. Even its special wonder is the worst.
adcarrymaokai
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Role-playing.
I agree completely, but it does seem to be the most problematic of the three as far as happiness goes. This is because (1) it is the least popular with the AIs and (2) the strongest happy policy is at level 2 and if you go there ASAP, then the FL troops (also level 2) will be too late to be of much use. (Granted, many players think that tenant is weak anyway.)
I prefer Order if I have gone wide at all (for the faster factories). It is also nice if I am trying for Dom but need the SV backup. I actually do much better using GE for SS parts than gold with Freedom. I would also argue that the level 1 Freedom tenants are relatively weak as compared to the level 1 picks in Order (and Autocracy). So Order is a good fit for those of us who are struggling at Deity play. Agreed, the special wonder is the worst.
Hmm. I think I pick Freedom mostly for RP!
