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How to Fix BE (Why AC is a classic game and BE is not)

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by dwcole78, Apr 24, 2017.

  1. Galgus

    Galgus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,695
    @GAGA Extrem

    You make a good point that you don't have to commit atrocities, but the caricature-extremes of the leaders and how central transcendence is to the story both make it a dark story in my opinion.

    It seems pretty set in stone that either people get willingly sacrificed for transcendence, or the planet becomes increasingly dangerous and uninhabitable.
    _____________________________________________________

    Wars happen in both games, I'm not sure why you are singling out BE for that.

    As for old mistakes, that really depends on affinity, but I don't see how civilization existing on the planet with improvements is a detriment.

    From a Purity perspective, they have the ability and desire to turn the world into a second, healthy New Earth. To that extent they care about that environment, they just want to destroy the existing one to make room for it.

    From a Supremacy perspective, who cares about the environment? Everyone can live forever in a perfect virtual world, guiding machines to do all they need on the physical world.

    You seem to have something like a Harmony perspective, adapting to the world and preserving it as a precious second chance.

    In my opinion, that conflict of incompatible competing visions of the future that could be interpreted as dark or Utopian is far more interesting than whether or not overt atrocities are committed.

    I find the philosophy behind BE to be much deeper and more interesting to think through than SMAC because each affinity could be a hero or villain based on one's interpretation and views, and because I like the questions raised by transhumanist technology and terraforming.
    __________________________________________________________

    The biggest flaw with BE, in my opinion, is that its themes and background aren't communicated well through the gameplay.

    The leaders are interesting, but most everything about them is buried in the civilopedia or in their old introduction scenes online and completely out of game.

    Affinities don't really make much difference in how the game plays mechanically where they should be radically altering strategies.

    I think a mechanical overhaul on affinities and better quests could solve a lot of the problems, and making the Aliens an actual threat and something to push back for expansion and exploration would also be a big bonus.
     
    DefiantMars likes this.
  2. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    9,854
    TBH I find the game themes to be OK, and that the leader messages give enough character to the leaders. I also play with my personal modified version of the Social Engineering mod, which gives leaders policies they like or dislike, and with a mod where I strengthened the aliens, which also might play a role here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  3. legalizefreedom

    legalizefreedom Inefficiency Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    452
    Location:
    Texas
    I am initially impressed with the quest system in Endless Space 2. I immediately thought of BE and how it could be improved with similar storylines and quest system. They've also given each race (civ) a different main storyline quest. It's already a pretty impressive game on release with a big patch in testing now. BE would have been awesome with this kind of narrative. Hoping for this in BE 2.
     
  4. jokii

    jokii Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    71
    Recycling Tanks
    "It is every citizen's final duty to go into the tanks, and become one with all the people."

    I LOVE THIS GAME.
    I still play it. For everyone who hasn't play it, I strongly recommend it. You will be amazed. If you disregard old graphics, it is so much better and more fun game than what we have today...
    If only someone would make the same exact game with newer graphics I would pay 100 $ for it at least.

     
  5. Mobius1

    Mobius1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2016
    Messages:
    4
    Gender:
    Male
    Honestly, it's hard to compete with Alpha Centauri. It was the best video game ever made, in my opinion.

    I've been playing it since it first came out, and still play it. I still even try to get people into playing it, which is crazy for such an old game!

    But all the new Civ games, for all their new systems, don't have systems that AC had 20 years ago. Damn, 20 years...I can't believe I've been playing this game for that long!

    For me, the ultimate reason why AC is so good, is that even after 20 years of playing it, I still have room for improvement and discovery. I've been astounded so many times over the years, when I learn something completely new to me, even after playing for years and years.

    For me, the main drawback of all the new Civ games is the 1UPT. Ever since it was introduced, they have never been able to make the AI challenging enough. And I'm sick of building range range range range in every Civ game to win. When are the ever going to fix melee?

    Having the ability to design your own units and teraform left so many possibilities that it never got boring!

    I also hate (though this is preference) the huge random factor in new Civ games. It's the main reason I get so sick of Civ6, because of all the random luck factors (BE is almost as bad, too, with building quests popping randomly, artifacts, etc.). Sure, even AC has random factors that make a difference, but I never felt nearly as impacted by whether or not I sent my initial unit in the lucky bloody direction thus dominoing my way to a much easier win. We always had a "2 mulligans allowed" rule in multiplayer games, and that got past most of the luck factor.

    But honestly, I actually love Rising Tide. I really like the incentive to go tall instead of wide (Granted, you can go tall in Alpha Centauri, but it's not nearly as good as ICS. I usually go tall these days, but it's as a handicap.).

    I also like the espionage system, and the traits/diplomatic agreement system. The aquatic cities are also awesome, as well as the need for specific resource types.

    What I dislike the most about CivBE, is the layout of the tech web. It's hard for me to explain, but I feel like I'm fighting with the tech web when I play. But perhaps a lot of that is due to my playstyle. I think it's because certain must have techs, put you down a tech path that is divergent from where you really want to go. Like getting a Spy Agency and it's respective techs make you +Supremacy, when you want to go Purity. Or a lot of techs I want are +Harmony, which I don't care for.

    Because of this, I spend most of my game going for techs purely for the affinity XP and not for the other benefits they unlock.

    And is it just me, or are the Purity upgrades by far the best? I'll take a Supremacy or Hybrid upgrade on occasion, but usually I find myself ignoring all Harmony upgrades and most Supremacy upgrades to hold out for the Purity ones (Especially on planes! Nothing like a full Purity fighter with +35 healing every turn!).

    Speaking of air, helecopters in Alpha Centauri are crazy stupidly game breaking OP! Thus they are banned in every game I play. :D
     
    cinattra likes this.
  6. jozef57

    jozef57 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    netherlands/deventer
    my Be did not work long time like it happend before than there was a solution this time after long time it suddenly worked lol thought lets play, in principle i like this game a lot, i need a lot of tweeking... but the concept is great, but i get anoyed to often. but i get anoyed with civ 6 too lol
     
  7. beetle

    beetle Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    5,598
    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    It would have to have hexes and maybe 1UPT, but I would happily pay what they are asking for Civ6!
     
    legalizefreedom likes this.
  8. cinattra

    cinattra Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2002
    Messages:
    186
    I think that's a problem with tech trees in general. If you have a certain play style you will tend to make the same exact choices in tech progression. Which can be a hindrance to re-playability. When I play Civ I force myself to play a different Civ to get away from the repetitiveness of that very scenario and even still it is easy to fall into the same tech progressions. With BE even more so you are right and you do it because it's the most effective, efficient way to level up your military.

    There should be some limited randomness to tech trees. There is more than one way to progress in science and not everyone takes the same route to scientific discoveries. For BE which techs that contribute points to affinities could be the randomness, but I think randomness to tech trees and randomness to which techs have affinities would be a step in the right direction to treating tech progression boredom.
     

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