How to Fix Norway

[empresskiova]

Spies and Privateers also have maintenance, and won't get you money every turn. Eventually Privateers will run out of things to plunder (or die), and spies will eventually fail. The Hubs are often time extremely cheap if you place them early and wait to finish them until you can crank them out in 4 turns.

What difficulty are you playing this on that you need that many campii lol?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Spies and Privateers also have maintenance, and won't get you money every turn. Eventually Privateers will run out of things to plunder (or die), and spies will eventually fail. The Hubs are often time extremely cheap if you place them early and wait to finish them until you can crank them out in 4 turns.

What difficulty are you playing this on that you need that many campii lol?

I think discussion shall be based on a Deity difficulty level. Which is the only level I usually play in.
There's simply not an "eventual" case since the game ends quickly and there's simply not enough time for these "eventual" cases to happen. Since a game usually ends around T150.

 

[empresskiova]

I think discussion shall be based on a Deity difficulty level. Which is the only level I usually play in.
There's simply not an "eventual" case since the game ends quickly and there's simply not enough time for these "eventual" cases to happen. Since a game usually ends around T150.

Deity works. Then I'll bow out.

 

[steveg700]

Deity works. Then I'll bow out.

Sure, if someone's playing a game on deity and then beelining to a science or culture victory in 150 turns, then they're playing some mutation of the game that is distanced from how most people play the game. Their game isn't about exploration or experimentation, it's about sticking to a script and using every combination of exploits the game has to offer so it's over as quickly as possible. Their take on Kongo doesn't relate to other peoples' take.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Sure, if someone's playing a game on deity and then beelining to a science or culture victory in 150 turns, then they're playing some mutation of the game that is distanced from how most people play the game. Their game isn't about exploration or experimentation, it's about sticking to a script and using every combination of exploits the game has to offer so it's over as quickly as possible. Their take on Kongo doesn't relate to other peoples' take.

I can do Domination/Religious victory on ~T150, but for Culture/Science, that'll be about ~T180, I think. I treat every map as a new one, playing it only once, and just explore that map, changing my strategy throughout the game according to new information given at every turn.

 

[steveg700]

I can do Domination/Religious victory on ~T150, but for Culture/Science, that'll be about ~T180, I think. I treat every map as a new one, playing it only once, and just explore that map, changing my strategy throughout the game according to new information given at every turn.

Well, at the end of the day, you have to have to have some reliable procedure for generating beaucoup science or tourism to consistently achieve those respective victories in that kind of time frame. To do so requires a player to focus on something to the exclusion of something else. You're not dynamically coming with a new guaranteed cakewalk strategy for beating every single deity game within 180 turns. For instance, you previously talked about having no room for a trade route policy card because you've already locked into what cards you'll use in every game. And you say you "have to have" six envoys in every scientific CS.

Granted, I may be misunderstanding some of the things you're saying, because it's not clear to me how a privateer equates to a consistent 50GPT. Or how you make effective use of spies when you're rushing towards victory, because spies require extensive investment in time and production to get a reliable ROI.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Well, at the end of the day, you have to have to have some reliable procedure for generating beaucoup science or tourism to consistently achieve those respective victories in that kind of time frame. To do so requires a player to focus on something to the exclusion of something else. You're not dynamically coming with a new guaranteed cakewalk strategy for beating every single deity game within 180 turns. For instance, you previously talked about having no room for a trade route policy card because you've already locked into what cards you'll use in every game. And you say you "have to have" six envoys in every scientific CS.

Granted, I may be misunderstanding some of the things you're saying, because it's not clear to me how a privateer equates to a consistent 50GPT. Or how you make effective use of spies when you're rushing towards victory, because spies are the game's biggest sink in time and production to get any ROI.

You misunderstood my point. There're multiple ways to victory, if two ways are almost equivalent I'd like to try on different ways in different games. But this doesn't mean that I may choose the worse way when one is slightly better than the other. Commercial Hub is the thing which is almost always the worst case, along with envoys in Commercial minor civs or trade route policies. When I first noticed Civ6 I tr

Okay, to be clear, there's one case I may be building a commercial hub. Since commercial minor civs worth capturing, I'll capture them as soon as they finish their commercial hubs. If there're two commercial minor civs I get 3 trade routes altogether. Therefore I only need to build one more commercial hub to trigger the eureka of Medival Fairs. In that case one commercial hub produces an extra 192 culture, and I'll build it. I think this is the only reason I build a commercial hub.

Okay, another reason is for Kumasi. I admit that if I get an early Kumasi Suzerain, Commercial Hubs may be worthwhile. But I'm not quite sure in this case. It seems that they're not that much worthwhile due to my real played games of early Kumasi. Since I in fact don't experience any faster win on Kumasi Games than non-Kumasi games.

 

[marius_kaparius]

I've posted this before but it would be fun if Longships could disembark to become Bersekers once their technology is unlocked and vice versa. You could then do a timing attack where you build Longships and then land them all at once. To be more fair maybe there should be an upgraded version of the Longship that corresponds to the Berserker that you should spend either gold or faith to upgrade to. I also thing that plundering a tile should reduce war weariness penalties.

 

[steveg700]

I've posted this before but it would be fun if Longships could disembark to become Bersekers once their technology is unlocked and vice versa. You could then do a timing attack where you build Longships and then land them all at once. To be more fair maybe there should be an upgraded version of the Longship that corresponds to the Berserker that you should spend either gold or faith to upgrade to. I also thing that plundering a tile should reduce war weariness penalties.

Well, essentially, you would achieve this by making a melee unit effective at embarking. This way the issue with how to handle promotions and upgrades is put to the side.

What would be good is the ability to get a melee land and naval unit together, kind of like Scythia's horsey double-dip. This would genuinely encourage a civilization to find coastlines and start hammering out ships. Maybe make the ability to heal naval units outside of territory contingent upon having a linked melee land unit.

I started a game as the Norse at what has become my usual settings these days: huge random map on Emperor, -2 AI civ's and -6 city-states. I have to say, the state church is a real throwaway. I mean, it really doesn't do anything besides give extra adjacency bonuses for woods? That is pretty chinsy. At least make it cheaper to build or maintain or something that basically makes it easier for a civ that's building a war machine to take advantage of.

I did enjoy getting to sail across the ocean early and explore (given that it was a random map). What I found was that it was one of those two-continent maps, and Sumeria and Aztecs were over there. Unfortunately, the game doesn't currently reduce warmonger penalties over trifling matters like being oblivious to the existence of a civ half-a-world away whose cities are being conquered, so neither are too happy to see me showing up on their shores. But they're buying my spare luxes anyway, and I guess that makes it all worthwhile.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Well, essentially, you would achieve this by making a melee unit effective at embarking. This way the issue with how to handle promotions and upgrades is put to the side.

What would be good is the ability to get a melee land and naval unit together, kind of like Scythia's horsey double-dip. This would genuinely encourage a civilization to find coastlines and start hammering out ships. Maybe make the ability to heal naval units outside of territory contingent upon having a linked melee land unit.

I started a game as the Norse at what has become my usual settings these days: huge random map on Emperor, -2 AI civ's and -6 city-states. I have to say, the state church is a real throwaway. I mean, it really doesn't do anything besides give extra adjacency bonuses for woods? That is pretty chinsy. At least make it cheaper to build or maintain or something that basically makes it easier for a civ that's building a war machine to take advantage of.

The berserkers don't work, at least not the extra movement. Maybe it's the fact that I upgraded them from spearmen, but they just don't get any extra movement.

I did enjoy getting to sail across the ocean early and explore (given that it was a random map). What I found was that it was one of those two-continent maps, and Sumeria and Aztecs were over there. Unfortunately, the game doesn't currently reduce warmonger penalties over trifling matters like being oblivious to the existence of a civ half-a-world away whose cities are being conquered, so neither are too happy to see me showing up on their shores. But they're buying my spare luxes anyway, and I guess that makes it all worthwhile.

Early embarking means you can send your knights across the ocean much earlier, maybe you can take advantage before their city defense get enhanced by Caravel or Lee Shun Jin. (Mind that if an Ai doesn't have Iron, its city defense remains very low before its first Caravel/Musketman/Field Cannon was built and you can take down it with little force.)