How to get Ai to wipe out civs and conquer the world?

[Taa]

After tweaking Ai+ mod for 1 week now together with a friend the results start to look promising. But I think the Ai in this game is too limited to be a real threat on even odds, no matter what is done mod wise, Ai need a lot of boost to counter all its stupid behavior.

I will share essential mods and settings when I'm done testing.

 

[Trigan Emperor]

I once had the AI quickly reduce my walls to rubble and take the city down to 0... And then refrain from taking it. The attack was a surprise and it happened so fast there was nothing I could do - I had no gold to buy units and my army was far away. But it all proved pointless in the end. The developers should fix algorithms that cause such glitchy behaviour, not give the AI more artificial bonuses.

I watched the AI pound their captured capital city with half a dozen ranged units for several turns while the city was at 0 health.

The devs should add code to tell AI ranged units to melee-attack cities that are at 0 health.

 

[kaspergm]

The devs should add code to tell AI ranged units to melee-attack cities that are at 0 health.

Well that's kind of the problem with the game design: Ranged units can't melee attack. So even if the AI knew how to think that thought, it would not be able to capture the city when it only has ranged units.

 

[Trigan Emperor]

Well that's kind of the problem with the game design: Ranged units can't melee attack. So even if the AI knew how to think that thought, it would not be able to capture the city when it only has ranged units.

Are ranged units able to capture cities? I forget.

They should be able to capture cities with their melee strength if it's ungarrisoned/at zero health, if they can't already.

 

[Smity2k1]

After tweaking Ai+ mod for 1 week now together with a friend the results start to look promising. But I think the Ai in this game is too limited to be a real threat on even odds, no matter what is done mod wise, Ai need a lot of boost to counter all its stupid behavior.

I will share essential mods and settings when I'm testing.

This would make my day. The dev of the original AI+ (@Siesta Guru) has gone radio silent so you should just re-release the mod on Steam/here.

AI+ combined with Real Strategy could make for a very nice challenge. @Infixo is still around so maybe you could even collaborate to make sure there are no mod conflicts/redundancies.

 

[Taa]

Ai+ and real strategy is not compatible according to infixo. So what my friend and me is doing is just testing many different settings in Ai+ mop without knowing much about what we are doing.
So far we are getting much better results then when we started, but its different to know for sure since there is so many variables in the game itself from test to test.

Apart from the Ai+ mod, we are also looking at other elements that seem to limit Ai's ability to "conquer the world".
Traits, agendas, strong city walls, the whole war mongering (Grievances) system and anti war Ai's is standing in the way of Ai war progress.

To put it bluntly, this game was not made like earlier civ games where the goal was to conquer the world. This game is made more like an "build a nation, live with other nations, and take on the challenges of history", it was never meant to be about conquering. In my book this is complete bull and I would never have bought the game if I knew this.
Anyway we are trying to make the best of it but the game is very limited in what can be done.

 

[cvb]

Ai+ and real strategy is not compatible according to infixo. So what my friend and me is doing is just testing many different settings in Ai+ mop without knowing much about what we are doing.
So far we are getting much better results then when we started, but its different to know for sure since there is so many variables in the game itself from test to test.
Apart from the Ai+ mod, we are also looking at other elements that seem to limit Ai's ability to "conquer the world".
Traits, agendas, strong city walls, the whole war mongering (Grievances) system and anti war Ai's is standing in the way of Ai war progress.

It would be great (& best) being able to tweak the AI itself significantly in the desired direction! Especially as it seems to turn out, that the civ6 decision-makers envisioned us being perfectly happy with the possibilities of adding alternate leaders, governors, map skins, graphical subtleties ...

To put it bluntly, this game was not made like earlier civ games where the goal was to conquer the world. This game is made more like an "build a nation, live with other nations, and take on the challenges of history", it was never meant to be about conquering. In my book this is complete bull and I would never have bought the game if I knew this.
Anyway we are trying to make the best of it but the game is very limited in what can be done.

Patience. They "conquer the world." Just they need / take their time (more than usual).

Found a nice video on youtube (In this case 277 turns):

Spoiler :

So I suppose, it would also help to delay the (single) human player nearer to the window in which the AIplayers are able to actually win. Problem is, virtually Nobody likes this. Boni to the AI?, "ok, if they must cheating ...". Easiest front loaded - difficulty levels are the most accepted form of "cheating".
But taking away anything from the human player? More difficult than stealing a happy baby's lolly

A game designer I like phrased it somehow such: "First make the game challenging and then add the AI players ..."


We are doing infinite loops:

In the case of Firaxis it may be as simple as do not build rockets until T250 or There is less ‘encouragement’ to build cities beyond certain numbers.

We are doing infinite loops. [...] Civ provides for (nearly) EVERYONE to beat eg. Alexander the Great. What more could you wish for as publisher of such a fantastic game?

For us few, which think, "it is just too easy", finally the only thing, which helps, will be to mod it ourself. Means to throw sand in the machinery of the human player confronted by AIplayers not build rockets until T250 ...

 

[Haig]

I sometimes ai conquers totally another empire but its rare.

Next patch should make these smple balance changes:

Nerf ranged units' strenght

Nerf wall hit points

Make ranges units able to cap a city when city health is zero

 

[Victoria]

We are doing infinite loops:

Confused why you are quoting something from a thread over a year old and using it with the word infinite loops.

 

[Taa]

Make ranges units able to cap a city when city health is zero

Sometimes I see Ai attack cities with many ranged units, making rangers capture cities seem to me like a good idea to remove limits on Ai.
The question then is this possible, and if so, how can it be done? I have been searching through files for UNITTYPE_RANGED and UNITTYPE_MELEE and I can't find anything related to capture cities or somethings like that.

 

[cvb]

I have been searching through files for UNITTYPE_RANGED and UNITTYPE_MELEE and I can't find anything related to capture cities or somethings like that.

If you cannot find anything in the database with the context of melee units being able to capture cities (or ranged units being unable to do so) this game mechanic is just hardcoded in the DLL. And without the release of the associated source files inaccessible to modders.

 

[Krajzen]

Do you think the loyalty system is a major contribution to the AI's unability to conquer?

 

[Taa]

I think it is an contributing factor, both war weariness and war grievances (warmonger) is limiting Ai for sure. I wanted those mechanics in my game, but I ended up removing/heavily reducing both this effects to remove limits in AI, and I also give Ai amenity bonuses, but I don't think the bonuses is needed.

After working on tweaking mods/files to make Ai more challenging with my friends, we are pretty happy so far.
Just remember we have very limited knowledge about the game and how the mods/tweaks works, we just ended up with this settings/tweak after testing. For all I know many settings can be conflicting and counterproductive.

Here is what we have done:

Critical mods - remove from steam folder/unsubscribe and put into \Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization VI\Mods
AI+ - basic mod for improving Ai war operations.
Aggressive AI Traits - make Ai more aggressive and remove war weariness
Aggressive AI Agenda Overhaul - give more Ai's better war/expansion related agendas
Smoother Difficulty 2.0 - give Ai combat bonus vs barbs + remove extra settlers, tech, civics and combat bonus vs players
Smoother Difficulty 2.0 - Ignore the new difficulty levels since they are not in Ai+ mod. Play only on deity.

Optional mods - remove from steam folder/unsubscribe and put into \Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization VI\Mods
Radiant Stronger Cities - give ai attack bonus vs districts/cities + reduce walls strength
Settlers Retreat - made both settlers and builders unable to be capture since Ai never capture them
Better AI Diplomacy - make Ai less friendly
Mod Leaders Only - remove bad performing Ai's
No AI Cheats - remove extra units/settlers etc from Ai at higher difficulty levels

Tweaked original files
Make backup of org files first, and then just overwrite or merge with other changes you have made.
DiplomaticActions.xml - Reduce/remove warmongering (Grievances)
GlobalParameters.xml - Reduce/remove war grievances/weariness + increased minimum length of war so Ai have enough time to achieve something
Eras.xml - remove extra start settlers/builders but give Ai extra warriors at start to fight of barbarians at deity.

Settings for starting new game:
Critical = Play on deity to enable all mechanics in Ai+ mod
Suggestions: Ai will perform better with smaller map, less obstacles and fewer landmasses. The larger map, the more mountains/water and number of landmasses, the Ai will perform worse.

We are still doing testing and we have a few different approaches, my friend is testing with only one continent since Ai have issues with settling several continents, but I will come with more here later.

Here is all the files and mods tweaked.
https://app.box.com/s/yrbntgddroenfg0c3k2wnn2bl83v0f65

Just remember my friends and me are complete noob's when it come to understanding mods/tweaks, all we have done is testing with spectator mod and played the game, so there can be many illogical things here but it somehow work for us.
Have fun

 

[Taa]

Anyone have any experience with tweaking Ai settle location for new cities? Im trying to get Ai to settle closer to excising cities, but sometimes they seem to aim at some strange location far away.
I have tried to increase yields values for food and production but still strange locations get selected.

 

[Taa]

Some pictures from play-testing with spectator mod:
Naval invasion:

One civ captured a continent:

Naval invasion with zerg function in Ai+:

 

[Smity2k1]

Some pictures from play-testing with spectator mod:

Is this on marathon speed? I see it's past turn 500 and they still don't have modern units.

 

[King of Prussia]

If you cannot find anything in the database with the context of melee units being able to capture cities (or ranged units being unable to do so) this game mechanic is just hardcoded in the DLL. And without the release of the associated source files inaccessible to modders.

Immortals were added via DLC that can shoot and melee.(or could, been a while since i played them) Is that flag or whatever you call it not visible and not able to be applied to other units? Immortals can capture cities in AI hands right ?

Not sure what the AI would do if they had that ability on archer type units. Would they try meleeing when they should shoot and vice versa.

 

[cvb]

Immortals were added via DLC that can shoot and melee. Is that flag or whatever you call it not visible and not able to be applied to other units? Immortals can capture cities in AI hands right?

According to https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Immortal_(Civ6) The Immortal is the Persian unique Melee class unit that replaces the Swordsman, with a ranged attack (Range 2) and the ability to capture cities.
"Note that, by default, the Immortal attacks in melee. This matters because the right-click attack shortcut will trigger a melee attack instead of a ranged shot (as it does for ranged units). If you want your Immortal to shoot the target instead of approaching and attacking it in melee, you should explicitly give a ranged strike command, and not right-click!"

As I understand it, ' the ability to capture cities' is an implicit property of melee units which expresses itself in approaching and occupying an attacked target's tile.
Compare a warrior & a slinger in making 1 move onto a flat tile next to an enemy unit and then using its 2nd movement point for a killing attack: the warrior occupies the enemy tile by destroying & replacing the enemy unit / city belonging directly; the slinger may kill an enemy unit, but cannot replace the enemy unit / city belonging directly.

As implemented such implicit behaviour cannot be influenced by the .xml & .sql files from which the game's database is build nor by the interpreted .lua scripts, because it is coded inside the DLL.
So for a ranged unit becoming able to capture a undefended city at health=0 one needs the C++ source files (.cpp), make this modification & compile a new custom DLL to replace the given.

Modder access to the C++ source files would require the decision to actually release those source files "to the best fans they have".

.

 

[Taa]

Is this on marathon speed? I see it's past turn 500 and they still don't have modern units.

This is standard speed with 10x tech and civics costs, so yeah no modern units for anyone at this stage

 

[cvb]

Not sure what the AI would do if they had that ability on archer type units. Would they try meleeing when they should shoot and vice versa.

Just to be sure: the modification I mentioned above would cover only what we humans perceive as Rules of the game - ie. would only concern what the game engine allows all players to do or not.

But still a list of valid actions is no instruction on what to do, how to play.


Obviously the AIplayers have a general issue with capturing cities in the form that they bring down a city to zero health with archers till nukes (yeah, again and again and again ...), but miss to actually take such a city. What looks incredible dumb to us, because even a heavily damaged scout would suffice. But the AIplayers are not "aware" of this ... every tiny bit has to be programmed into them: when they melee, when they should shoot and vice versa ... (this requires access to the DLL sources btw) ...

Maybe Firaxis changes the AIplayers to purposely bring down a city to zero health and then pocket it with a melee unit they brought along. Maybe Firaxis releases the DLL sources as they did with civ4 & civ5 ...

.