How to sign defensive pacts?

[Maximo the Xth]

Since with this mod the AI finally does sign some defensive pacts with each other and some old bugs linked with them are fixed, I wanted to take part in this defensive pact game. And the question ist: How? I've tried everything.
Relations as high as possible, strong military, weak military, equal/inferior/stonger military than the AI etc. Nothing would ever make an AI sign a defensive pact with me. Does somebody know what I could do?

 

[saamohod]

Same here. Spent hundreds of hours playing this mod, never been able to sign a defensive pact with an AI. Not saying that my only purpose during a gameplay was to sign a DP at any cost, but whenever I thought it would be possible, it actually never was.

 

[Aristos]

I have in older versions, but I remember it was harder than expected, and don't remember the specific conditions.

 

[IcyAngel]

The AI only accepts them if its military score significantly trails yours. Gives you next to no resources for the pact, too.

I wish its functionality would shift towards protection - aka I pay a big stick AI good money to cover me in case of DoW (and to deter DoWs). Now it's virtually useless imo (for players anyway - AIs pact profusely among themselves later in the game).

 

[Edaka]

The AI only accepts them if its military score significantly trails yours. Gives you next to no resources for the pact, too.

I wish its functionality would shift towards protection - aka I pay a big stick AI good money to cover me in case of DoW (and to deter DoWs). Now it's virtually useless imo (for players anyway - AIs pact profusely among themselves later in the game).

I like this concept - the AI being more allowing to make DP with a weaker civ, probably a friend, but for a good price. The current system makes DPs possible only when you already have a massive army, which partly defeats their purpose.

 

[Gazebo]

The AI only accepts them if its military score significantly trails yours. Gives you next to no resources for the pact, too.

I wish its functionality would shift towards protection - aka I pay a big stick AI good money to cover me in case of DoW (and to deter DoWs). Now it's virtually useless imo (for players anyway - AIs pact profusely among themselves later in the game).

I like this concept - the AI being more allowing to make DP with a weaker civ, probably a friend, but for a good price. The current system makes DPs possible only when you already have a massive army, which partly defeats their purpose.

Not exactly. The AI is likely to want to DP with you if you are around the same military strength OR you are stronger than them. Opinion matters a ton, especially if you are friends with their enemies (or have DPs with their enemies/competitors). There's quite a bit going on here, but this is necessary to keep the AI from spamming DPs and/or being abused by humans.

G

 

[IcyAngel]

Not exactly. The AI is likely to want to DP with you if you are around the same military strength OR you are stronger than them. Opinion matters a ton, especially if you are friends with their enemies (or have DPs with their enemies/competitors). There's quite a bit going on here, but this is necessary to keep the AI from spamming DPs and/or being abused by humans.

G

The AI overcoming its combat deficiencies by spamming units makes military strength a lame proxy though; I can have an unstoppable army, rampaging freely through the entire world, and many AIs will nonetheless have a military score multiple folds mine simply from having units standing around everywhere contributing nothing.

 

[Gazebo]

The AI overcoming its combat deficiencies by spamming units makes military strength a lame proxy though; I can have an unstoppable army, rampaging freely through the entire world, and many AIs will nonetheless have a military score multiple folds mine simply from having units standing around everywhere contributing nothing.

It is all we have, though, DLL-wise. No code for 'checkforcompetentmilitaryscore()'

G

 

[Jdoug312]

It is all we have, though, DLL-wise. No code for 'checkforcompetentmilitaryscore()'

G

Could we get a multiplier based on the number of wars won? I know that we get a tourism bonus from each one, maybe winning/losing a war boosts/drops your military score by a figure?

 

[Gazebo]

Could we get a multiplier based on the number of wars won? I know that we get a tourism bonus from each one, maybe winning/losing a war boosts/drops your military score by a figure?

That's not how military score is calculated - it is a sum of your unit power, your city defense, your economic power, all divided by # of cities owned.

G

 

[Revolutionist_8]

That's not how military score is calculated - it is a sum of your unit power, your city defense, your economic power, all divided by # of cities owned.

G

Could be a multiplier introduced, that would 'increase' the player's military score, like from King (or Prince) above? (as if the player had more units)

 

[Gazebo]

Could be a multiplier introduced, that would 'increase' the player's military score, like from King (or Prince) above? (as if the player had more units)

It could, but permanent bonuses like that would greatly disrupt functions that use military score to weigh targeting for the AI.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

It is all we have, though, DLL-wise. No code for 'checkforcompetentmilitaryscore()'

G

What about checking for the number of AI forces NOT in home territory?

ie. if they're not in home territory they must be ACTIVELY involved in some conflict elsewhere.

 

[Gazebo]

What about checking for the number of AI forces NOT in home territory?

ie. if they're not in home territory they must be ACTIVELY involved in some conflict elsewhere.

That's crazy expensive.

G

 

[ExpiredReign]

That's crazy expensive.

G

Fair enough. It still leaves us with the rather poor metric of military power being derived solely from the number of units you have, regardless of how you use them.

What about taking the existing number as it is now:

a sum of your unit power, your city defense, your economic power, all divided by # of cities owned.

Divide it in 2 if currently at peace and if not multiply it by the number of current opponents? That way an AI with masses of units sitting idly will not compare to a player using a select force of units in a war, a true indicator of military power.

Just to be clear on this. I'm not really fussed by the current system, just spitballing an idea or two to keep my mind engaged.

 

[wobuffet]

Divide it in 2 if currently at peace and if not multiply it by the number of current opponents? That way an AI with masses of units sitting idly will not compare to a player using a select force of units in a war, a true indicator of military power.

Wait, do you mean

Divide Multiply it in 2 if currently at peace and if not multiply divide it by the number of current opponents?​

?
Seems to me that this would definitely increase the "dogpiling" tendency that AI players already tend to have. Not sure how that'd play out – I'm guessing it'd make conquest victories easier.


I'd suggest a more mild tweak (if indeed we change this at all):

1. Calculate raw military score as before. If at peace, adjusted military score = raw score.
2. If at war with an opponents with combined raw military size X, adjusted military score = raw military score – (0.1 * X)

So for example, consider 3 players A, B, and C with raw military scores of 1000, 800, and 700 respectively. Then the adjusted military scores would be

• 1000, 800, and 700 if peace reigns,
• ·920, 700, and 700 if A and B are at war,
• 1000, 730, and 620 if B and C are at war,
• ·930, 730, and 520 if A and B gang up on C, and
• ·850, 630, and 520 if A, B, and C are all at war with each other. (Meanwhile, any other civs at peace would maintain their undiminished scores.)

 

[ExpiredReign]

No I did mean it the way I wrote it.
Assuming a larger score means a greater military power then halving it if at peace would mean stockpiled units equate to less value. On the other hand if you're at war against more than one opponent then you should get some credit for that.
So taking 1000 as the basic military power, if you're at peace then your score is only 500.
If you're at war with two opponents then it's 2000.

However this formula is very rough and basic, you're probably better at designing a more accurate one than I, such as the one in your post.