How to use artillery effectively...

Originally posted by Jon Shaw
I'm no expert at civ3, but it does seem a little long winded maintaining all those artillery (as someone said above) and planning ahead (founding new cities- the settler has to crawl over enemy terriotory at one square per turn- an attacking cavalry unit could cover 3 squares per turn). If it is so difficult to kill an infantry unit with cavalry, I prefer to simply wait for tanks rather than massing huge armies of cavalry and artillery and planning complex campaigns turns ahead.

If you are playing at the Deity level, by the time you get tanks, the AIs would get tanks and Mech Infantry as well. If you wait too long, you may end up fighting a nuclear war. Unless you get modern armour, tank can move only two tiles inside enemy territory; therefore, you may still need to build the outpost to give your tanks the extra move. On the other hand, the cavalry can move three tiles inside enemy territory; with the outpost, the cavalry will be able to attack and withdraw to heal inside the city in the same turn. It's fairly easy to kill an infantry unit that has only 1 HP left. If you really want to be sure, send in an army of cavalries instead. Since your artilleries have already reduce all enemy units to 1HP, chances are your units will win 9 out of 10 which means more chance for elite units and more chance to produce the Great Leader. Since I usually fight against the enemy of at least 5 times stronger than me and can reproduce units faster than me (not to mention that the AI usually get its buddies to join force against me; therefore, sometimes, I'm fighting against the force of at least 10 times stronger than me), I will be dead without my artillery units.:crazyeye: Just remember that this strategy is designed for fast conquest at the Deity level.

About the upkeep cost: This is what I usually have during the peek of my game (any of my games):

  • 100 to 150 artillery units
  • 75 Infantry units
  • 100 to 150 cavalry units
  • Sea transport will be rush as needed
  • A half dozen warships to defend my transports
  • 200-500 slave workers which requires no upkeep
  • 5-20 foreign settlers which requires no upkeep
Maximum upkeep that for my invincible force would cost no more than 400 golds. Under Democracy government, my civ is usually made over 1500 golds toward the end of the Middle Age; therefore, 400 golds is not much to worry about. During the war, most of my core cities will continue to produce more cavalries (cavalry is cheaper than infantry and much cheaper than tank) to replace those that were lost. Therefore, I always have enough calvary to finish off the wounded enemy.:) Again, I'm talking about the Deity level, at the lower level of the game, this may not be the case.

Also, I thought that if you built a settler with a foreign citizen the settler formed a new city with that same foreign citizen still.
That would be correct. If you build an outpost with a foreign settler, the citizen of that outpost would be foreign as well. However, that doesn't matter since you are going to disband that outpost within the same turn anyway.:)
 
Originally posted by ainwood
One thing I'd add, is not only do you want to reduce the hitpoints of the defenders to 1, it is also a great benefit to reduce the city population - turn a metropolis into a city, or a city into a town to reduce the defensive bonus of the troops stationed there.
Yup! It's really easy to finish off enemy units of 1HP left. Imagining your elite cavalry of 5 HP attacking an infantry of 1HP. The cavalry is having five shot at this and a chance to produce a Great Leader. Once I have at least a half dozen armies of cavalries, my force are unstopable. I would sign peace treaty only when my democratic citizens starting to complain about the war.
 
This looks like a lot of Fun!! (But not for the AI civ ;) ) I've always liked artillery, but this is a whole new level.

A question: Does the output city always get a full 1 tile radius as shown in your example? In some cases, cities I've formed near other civ's cities did not get a full 1 tile radius if some of the tiles were being worked by citizens of the already established city.
 
Originally posted by civ_steve
This looks like a lot of Fun!! (But not for the AI civ ;) )
Yup, I always love it when my little insignificant force emerge victoriously every time (once I get Replacement Part tech, my civ is unstopable).:)

A question: Does the output city always get a full 1 tile radius as shown in your example?
Yes, the outpost usually get a full 1 tile radius. In fact, the only time I see it less than a full 1 tile radius is when I build it right in between two major enemy cities, but that was in one of the old patch. I haven't seen that happen in patch 1.29f yet.

Correction: During the first turn, you will always going to get a full 1 tile radius; however, if you keep your outpost longer than 1 turn, the enemy culture may reduce your outpost radius.
 
In my game last night (warlord - patch 1.21f) I jammed into a one-tile wide corridor between two different opponets' cities, each with a one-tile radius around them. I got one tile on one side but NOT on the other! Of course I rushed a temple & library and soon got my one-tile radius, but not at first, Moonsinger.
 
Originally posted by MadHatter
In my game last night (warlord - patch 1.21f) I jammed into a one-tile wide corridor between two different opponets' cities, each with a one-tile radius around them. I got one tile on one side but NOT on the other! Of course I rushed a temple & library and soon got my one-tile radius, but not at first, Moonsinger.

Are you at war with either of those two opponents, especially the one on the side that didn't give you the one-tile radius? I am just thinking out loud; may be the city radius works a little differently during war time. The reason I am saying this because I have always gotten the one-tile radius whenever I build the temporary outpost.
 
If your civ is culturally strong you will get the 1 tile radius. If you are culturally weak just build the outpost city one square away from your targeted city. [That works everytime for sure!]

CB
 
Originally posted by Marx
I am a great fanatic of carriers with lots of bombers, but this rocks also. :D
I was a fanactic of carriers and bombers too...until I get tired of moving those carriers around. With railroad, I could move my artilleries any where on the battlefield. Artillery is cheaper to build and more reliable too (don't have to worry about them being shot down by enemy air superior; once an artillery unit is built, it will last to eternity or until it is disbanded).
 
I have done further study about the 1 tile radius. Basically, if we build our outpost 1 tile away from the AI city, even if we have the highest culture point, the AI city will get the full one-tile radius(this makes sense because their cities were built first) as shown in the following image. Note, either ways, their cities are within our artillery range.:)

PS: If we build our outpost 2 tiles away from their cities, we will have the full one-tile radius even if we have zero culture point.
 

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I have sample battle sequence of how I were able to take multiple heavily defended cities within the same turn by using only artilleries and cavalries. Note: each enemy city were defended by at least 4 infantries plus cavalries.

1. I use "Nuremberg Outpost" to attack "New Munich"

2. After taking "New Munich", I move my settlers into position, then I disband "New Munich". Now my settler is within Cologne culture boundary with full remaining movement point.

3. I build the "Cologne Outpost" and position artilleries to take Cologne.

Note: All these events are done within the same turn. After I take Cologne, I go even further to take two more cities within the current turn. I feel so sorry for the AI; even if they have a dozen infantries defending each of those cities, they still wouldn't be able to stop my artilleries.
 

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Originally posted by Moonsinger


PS: If we build our outpost 2 tiles away from their cities, we will have the full one-tile radius even if we have zero culture point.

I doubt you tested that under enough situations because I know that is not always be true. :)

When up against cities with alot of culture, your newly planted city will not overpower their existing cultural footprint, from two squares away. I know this from culturally overpowering opponents. I also know this from applying artillery against strong opponents. :)
 
To Cartouche Bee:

You may be right; I will keep an eye on it.:) So far, I haven't encountered that situation yet.
 
Just wanted to say great, great simple strategy! :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: This will also work on lower difficulty levels, won't it? I don't think I'm quite ready for Deity. And there is no need for a patch for this to work, is there?
 
Originally posted by willj
Just wanted to say great, great simple strategy! :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: This will also work on lower difficulty levels, won't it? I don't think I'm quite ready for Deity. And there is no need for a patch for this to work, is there?

Thank you for your kind words.:) I have been working on a way to counteract this strategy. If someone use this strategy against me in a muti-player game, what can I do to stop them? So far, I haven't come with any effective way to counteract this strategy yet. Once you have over 150 artilleries, 150 cavalries and 75 infantries, you are pretty much invincible until they get modern units. Since it's a long way from here to modern techs, you would have conquered the whole world by the time they get modern units.

Yes, it does work at lower difficulty levels. However, I must warn you: if you use this strategy at the lower level, it would be like taking candies from the baby. Victory would be hollow if we use this strategy at the lower levels. I have banned myself from using this strategy at any level below Emperor.

PS: No patch is required!
 
Using this strategy, you can kiss your reputation goodbye forever.
Done many times you'll be despised by the world as much as if you had used nukes.
 
Also I think if this were employed in MP (which I am sure people will try, if the other player is any good, HIS 100 artillery, 75 cavalry and 50 infantry men could attack the stack, take it, and then have 200 artillery, and a very, very, very angry disposition towards the settler rusher. The Ai doesn't know how to use artillery stacks, but people do.
 
Originally posted by Neomega
Using this strategy, you can kiss your reputation goodbye forever.
Done many times you'll be despised by the world as much as if you had used nukes.
I don't see how you come to that conclusion? I use this strategy all the time and my reputation is perfectly good. By good, I mean they are willing to let me pay GPT (golds per turn) when I'm buying techs. In fact, the AIs actually love to pick on me because I don't have a lot of troops (just a lot of artilleries:D).
 
Originally posted by Neomega
Also I think if this were employed in MP (which I am sure people will try, if the other player is any good, HIS 100 artillery, 75 cavalry and 50 infantry men could attack the stack, take it, and then have 200 artillery, and a very, very, very angry disposition towards the settler rusher. The Ai doesn't know how to use artillery stacks, but people do.

Unless you use this strategy, how do you be able to get close enough to capture my 200 artilleries. If you are really good, you will throw every thing you have trying to take out my settlers, but that is as far as you can go. Since your infantries can move only 1 space inside my border, it would be impossible for you to capture anything with infantries. Therefore, your cavalry is your only chance. Let's see how much chance we are talking about here.

In your best move, your cavalries will be able to move 3 spaces (1 move inside your border plus 2 move inside my borders). Since my artillery stack is heavily defended by at least 10 infantries and stayed three tiles deep inside my border, it would be impossible for your cavalries to reach my artillery stack. Therefore, the only way your cavalries can be able to reach their target is that you use the settler. If you use the settler, you are in fact using this strategy, aren't you?

Moreover, even if you cavalries reach my stack, do you actually think they will be able to take out my infrantries defenders and my artillery support? Impossible!
 
ahh, think MP.... I will also have 100 artillery right? 100 artillery in my capital right? So your army takes two of my cities, before all of your artillery has fired. I lose two cities and it hurts....

But I have 100 artillery, those 100 artillery RR their way down to the corner where your 100 artillery, defended by a fledgling 10 infantry are....

BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM,BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM.BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM. Now your defenders are in tatters.

My 75 cavalry clean them up.... capture your 100 artillery.... AND your mighty stack of 100 artillery are now MY stack of 100 artillery, AND... they can be used this turn.... now I can recapture my cities... thanks for all the guns, btw. The territory is mine again. I lose some improvements due to the captured cities which hurts, but I now have 200 artillery, all my infantry still, most of my cavalry... and a seething hatred for the settler rusher.

I'm just saying it works against the AI, but MP is going to be a whole new game... see ya on the battlefield.
 
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