How to win at Deity, on a LARGE map?

[hecose]

I have played eight or nine games on Deity and have been winning consistently. However, I just recently lost my first Deity game on a large map. In the past I always play on a normal map. So perhaps I can get some tips on winning on a large map.

In my normal map games, I always try to expand my civ as much as I can, and only engage in battles if an enemy civ is blocking my expansion. I will focus a lot on science and will also have two to three wonder cities. I try to change to democracy a.s.a.p. Now I even skip the communism stage. I'd go Monarchy-Republic-Democracy, sometimes even Monarch-Democracy. I use the We Love The King Day strategy to boost my population too. Also, I have babarian activity on Raging Hordes. Usually in my experience on Deity, by the time I reach the modern age I'll be far ahead in science and civ size and I'll be able to launch a space ship before the rest (or launch a faster one to catch up with anyone else who launched earlier than me). Sometimes if I'm too far ahead I just use howitzers to take over the world.

Now, in my recent Deity game on a large map, I've missed ALL the early wonders (usually I still get to build a few, like Great Wall). My civ grew to be the largest, and most advanced, but the others are all very close behind because all 6 of them teamed up against me (as usual) and keep exchanging techs. Two other civs were almost as large as me. I have occupied almost all of my very large continent, but have not invaded the other (many) smaller continents of the AIs. Actually I really really seldom build ships, except the early ones to explore & populate other nearby islands. And then some guy built the Manhattan project. I really hate nukes in my civ games and always try to avoid them. I got nuked a few times and basically lost one of my 4 city islands (not my main continent). And I got beaten by one of the larger AI civs in building and launching a spaceship. They were all too close to me / at the same level as me in science.

So, any suggestions on how to win on Deity on a large map? Should I be more agressive militarily? Should I have expanded even more. In my game I have very few ships and have only expanded to two or three other islands (well, partly because my main continent is very large).

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Generally, I played my deity games the same way you described. Basically with and isolatioist point of view. I would get to a goof number of cities (25-30) then just start to max out science and build the spaceship. I would defend viciously against the AI, but hardly ever focused on attacking them (unless they were on my home continent, then they died quickly).

I'm not sure what size you got up to, but typically the AI is way behind in tech by the time I am ready to launch my spaceship. I have only had one game where I actually fought in neuclear times and I was far enough ahead in tech that I had SDI's in all my cities, so it didn't affect me much.

It sounds like you may have had a bit of bad luck by having all the AI's so close to you. What type of landmass did you pick? Continents will be a harder game since the AI will be able to get rather large if left alone and will typically get close to your continent.

Try it again and see how it goes. If you don't have the methods down for doing lots of trade then be sure you have the GL. In my games I got the Pyramids, Mich's Chap, GL, Leo's, JS Bach, Hoover, and then every wonder beyond that. Go for philosophy early because it gives you a free tech and leads to monotheism.

Good Luck!

 

[hecose]

I missed almost all of the early wonders except Marco Polo, because my starting point has lots of grassland and not many hills or forests, i.e. good for growth but not as good for production. But maybe I simply started too late in focusing on wonder building. Actually I didn't plan to build Marco Polo. I built it because the AIs beat me to something else and there's no other wonder I could build in the foreseeable future. But actually it did me some good because with the free embassies I traded techs with many of the other civs. I did get Leo's, Mike's, Bachs and Hoover later.

I think the key difference between this game and all my previous deity games is the large map size. I just used a random setting for type of landmass. With a large map, I had lots of space to expand, but so do the AIs. I only really ran into them pretty late. So actually the AIs were not close to me at all. (actually when I said "close" I meant scientifically) Basically on a large map, everyone had lots of space to expand. It's good to be able to expand, but in this case it's bad for me because I couldn't stop anyone else's expansion. In all my previous deity games I'll usually run into a two or three civs and will fight with them for expansion space. I'll either stunt their growth or eat into their lands.

So, any tips for handling large maps? I suspect probably the ICS (infinite city sprawl) would be the best bet. Probably I should have expanded more aggressively and worried less about city improvements in each city.

 

[Jorge]

My experince in Deity is that sometimes it's not very good to boost your science at maximun. All the advantage you get by doing that desappears when you are the most powerful because all the other civs start to exchange their knowledge and cacht you soon. Sometimes it's better to reduce your science percentage to earn more money or get luxuries. Just think that the AI is going to be more or less at your level in science no matter what you do and they will not exchange knowledge if they don't need to, so don't let them that advantage.

I haven't play a lot in large maps because I like to conquer the world instead of launching the spaceship and it's really boring to conquer too many cities, so I can't give you any other advise.

 

[hecose]

You have a point there Jorge. In my previous Deity games on normal sized maps, going full steam on science has always worked because my civ size is always growing larger and larger and all the others added up can't beat me in science. But on a large map, the AIs grow to be pretty large and thus when they gang up on me in science, they can catch up to me or even beat me.

I tend to like to play to the modern age and win by launching a spaceship. I only do world conquer if I'm too far ahead and can't be bothered with the spaceship.

Anyone play regularly on deity on large maps?

 

[Bachus]

Hello Hecose and all other Civ players!

I always play deity on large maps with 7 civs and raging hordes excepting GOTM.

I'll tell you one of my tactics to an easy win and also a very entertaining game. I use this tactics if I want to have fun, so don't use it if you want to have really high scores.

So, the beginning is the same, expand as much as you can. Go for Alphabet-Code of Laws-Writing-Literacy-Republic. This means you get Republic as the 6th-4th advance, depending on how lucky you are.

Switch to Republic and go for Great Library. Set your science rate to 0 and your luxury as much as you need. Then start building your empire-temple,marketplace... and after Trade prepair caravans for future wonders. Try not to loose Mike's, Bach's and Leo's.

After that it's simple, you can play anyway you want. You'll get your science from GL and discover yourself only when you really need a science but generally just stay and wait for advances to come from GL.

When you dicover Democracy switch immediately and this will give you a boost. Even if you loose some wonders (I once missed Leo's and Bach's), by that time you'll have all improvements built in the cities, the cities maxed to 12 and preparing for the next jump. You can start building routes or whatever you have to and when Electricity is discovered you can start researching for yourself.

You'll see that you'll have a couple of advances ahead of any AI and have enough time for SDI and all other improvements. You can use here your former allies (being a "very weak" nation with no science and no units you had allies) for tech-exchanges.

From here, you can end it however and whenever you want. With your economy you could build the SS in a (very) few turns. But I usually preffer not to.

If you decide for conquest, it will be easy to do it with your powerfull Democracy (see Starlifter's posts for details on how powerfull a Democracy can be) and be sure that it won't be difficult for you to have war with all civs.

This is where the best part is. No civ will dare to start the SS and the war will be easy for you to wage. This is if you build your Democracy properly.

You should try this and see once again why Civilization is such a great game!

The biggest problem you'll have will be with your small cities at the beginning. After a few games it'll be easier, but at the first look it seems very difficult to maintain order in your empire at deity level. The key to it is (rush)building MKs and Banks, which raise both your Gold and Luxury (advantageous because your Science rate is 0) .

Other problem is defending against AI's and barbarians. But this can be done.

Anyway, I don't remember ever loosing a game this way. I'm sure this tactics can be improved -by switching to Monarchy first and only after expansion to Republic.....- but I feel very comfortable playing this way.

Good luck to everyone!

 

[starlifter]

There are many methods to not only win, but wipe the board at 7/raging/deity/large. Fundamentalism is so easy to use that I won't even talk about it. In general, a sprawling Monarchy, using the food and production advantage, is a good way to get to Democracy. If you need a transition to ease happiness in a militaristic monarchy, build the SOL and go to communism for a while. But get into Democracy and get powerful, and you will steamroll. Learn to fight massive, raging. bloody wars in Democracy .

The devil is in the Details, as they say. So feel free to search about trade/democracy, etc. (use my name as a search parameter can help narrow the search). I've written volumes, and won't make a whole new 10,000 character post of rehash. These links may get you started, and have more views than just mine, too:

Trade:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5793&highlight=democracy

Gold and Science details:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6033&highlight=democracy

Democracy vs. Communism discussion:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=790&highlight=Democracy

My "Power Democracy":
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=854&highlight=democracy

Democracy at War:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=843&highlight=democracy

Here is an ongoing succession game, with download examples:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4510&highlight=democracy

Here is a GOTM6 link, with download examples:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5838&highlight=democracy

Here is a GOTM8 link, with download examples:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5145&highlight=democracy

 

[Malthus]

When playing Deity level on large maps I expand to about 15 cities. I use trade and wonders to advance in tech and always go for the Chapel then change to Republic/Democracy. When armed with tanks and spys I set about conquering the largest Civ. I always knock out Capitals and large cities first, then use spys to incite revolts in the smaller cities. The trick is to hammer the Civ in two or three turns. I try to limit the number of Partisans with my attacking units. When a large Civ has been conquered and subdued the effect it has on my Democracy is profound. The increased population builds revenues extreamly quickly. Depending on the proximity of other Civs I will either conquer them or start the space race. I find this works 90% of the time and provides for an enjoyable game.