How Would You Start?

[antimony]

Yep those 3 workers on full cottaging duty for 8 turns will build 5 cottages accounting for FP penalty to build time.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Yep those 3 workers on full cottaging duty for 8 turns will build 5 cottages accounting for FP penalty to build time.

Except they won't be. Only two workers can build cottages, the other one is chopping a work boat and connecting the ivory. Including move time, that's only 14 worker turns = 3 cottages.

It's not as far behind as I thought it was, but it still pushes writing out by several turns. Plus, I don't even have a defender in every city when one of my neighbours decides to invade. So I restarted. Lost again. Twice.

I'm just too slow. Either I don't churn out enough units, or my tech stagnates. Thanks again for your help, but I'm calling this one a lost cause. I think I'll go and have another look at sampsa's autosaves from the previous game to see if I can figure out what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Whisker]

I don't know if it's applicable for this particular case, but just checking that you are using staggered worked turns?
Meaning that if you have tile to improve exactly two spaces away, you stop midway and put 1 turn of work on something else (usually road or farm). These add up and can same you worker turns down the line.

 

[sampsa]

Yes, maybe it's a worker management efficiency problem. Do you often use two or more workers to get things done faster? For chops I don't because it loses a worker turn (moving to the forest) but otherwise, always when possible. Getting things done faster is better. If your target square is 2 tiles away, don't move directly, rather move 1 and road/farm, cancel.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Yeah. I do that where it's more efficient. Obviously, it doesn't usually make sense to put 1 turn into a road every step along the way if your target is 3 tiles away. I double workers where I can - especially for long builds like quarries, but will really assess the situation if it involves moving onto a 2 move point cost tile.

 

[sampsa]

it doesn't usually make sense to put 1 turn into a road every step along the way if your target is 3 tiles away.

Close to never. Getting stuff done 1T faster is usually better.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

The only exception I can think of off the top of my head is when connecting a necessary resource that isn't in any BFC. So, yeah, very rare.

 

[antimony]

How early do you get attacked and what does the enemy stack look like?

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Sometimes really early (before T65), sometimes a bit later. Usually just 5-7 vultures. Not a major threat if I start pumping axes, but then I'm in a war. I have to whip/chop units from scratch, amass a force that not only repels the invaders, but is strong enough to take a city, all while trying to limp my way to construction via HBR and possibly maths too. That's a lot of tech while I'm whipping away from all my cottages, and dealing with the unhappiness that comes from the whip.

Even if I win the war, I'm crippled.

Spoiler Last game - T152 :

He declared war in 750 BC, so what's that? Around T80 or so? Took me until 475AD (T134ish?) before he'd accept peace (and I only got 2 of his cities in the process). I had another swipe at him, but only took 2 more cities before my army was decimated. I might have been able to push on, and maybe even get him to capitulate, but I don't think there's really any point...

 

[sampsa]

Now THAT is behind in tech. There must be some other way!

Getting attacked that early can be a problem, even with copper.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Now THAT is behind in tech.

Lol. Yep. My break-even was 10% slider, which only got me 12bpt, so no hope for recovery.

There must be some other way!

You know, that thought had occurred to me. The fact that I couldn't find it in the moment shows just how far I still have to go.

 

[antimony]

T80 you should aim to have construction and then you can counterattack with cats. Before that I would just focus on repelling.

Unless you're doing e.g. a pre turn 50 2-city axe rush with that copper, it's not super efficient to attack in immortal with just axes/swords especially a PRO AI like Gilgamesh.

One of the main rules at high difficulty is that you can't conquer and tech at the same time. So wars need to be expedient, better to ceasefire with a net gain of a few cities if you can. Recovery is often a about finding the tech that will get good value in trades, but that takes experience with the difficulty level to figure out what AIs go for, how fast they get it, etc.

 

[antimony]

It's good to learn from @sampsa's game for example, but you don't have to roll over the map as early as he does to win, you have to pick your path based on your own speed of conquest, learn to stop and recover at the right time.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

T80 you should aim to have construction and then you can counterattack with cats.

My best attempt at this map (so far) I got writing on T62. From there at 100% slider, there's 33T worth of research (Maths=11, Masonry=4, Const=18) until construction. I get that building and growing cottages will change that, but I still can't imagine I'll have it by T80. I'll give it a shot though.

 

[sampsa]

Before that I would just focus on repelling.

Yes, this is important. If you whip away cottages pre-construction it's unlikely things will go well. You build cottages to get a tech lead, then you can reconsider whether you need to work them (though usually you should).

It's good to learn from @sampsa's game for example, but you don't have to roll over the map as early as he does to win

Yes. It's like the best case scenario when you have great land quickly and are unbothered by the AI. When the AI starts to harass you, you need to reconsider your aims. Staying alive and keeping up the tech are the important things.

My best attempt at this map (so far) I got writing on T62. From there, there's 33T worth of research (Maths=11, Masonry=4, Const=18) until construction.

The tech screen doesn't give you 20% bonus towards techs you cannot currently tech so constr is likely 4T closer. At least capital should get a library before you turn tech back on. Maybe you can't get T80 but you could get T85 construction.

 

[antimony]

Sometimes you can trade for masonry. Also, it's very typical for me that writing, math and construction each take 10 turns despite the difference in cost. It's how good cottages and a few libraries snowball. Btw a good trick is to put the slider at 0 percent after writing until you have libraries up especially the cheap CRE ones. Then you get 100 percent of the libraries benefit for a long time with the stored gold.

 

[sampsa]

Btw walls are great as you have stone. He can't hurt you pre-construction, thus you have no need to be active in that war.

 

[sampsa]

And it's not like the AI is understanding war tactics. He will try to attack your nearest city. Maybe, maybe he will pick another target if the odds are too bad, but usually he will just suicide troops to that one city.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Yeah, after an expensive (for him) assault, he did try to send a small force past my border city towards my capital. In what was probably a mistake, I went HBR before construction and traded for horses. Not efficient, but it did mean that I had a couple of ponies I could use to harass him on the flat. He didn't try it again.

 

[sampsa]

I'm hoping someone goes early WHEOOHRN on me as well...

T47

Spoiler :

I don't know if this is the best way, but it makes sense to me. BW-AH-wheel-agri-(pot), worker-worker-settler-warrior-settler-settler in capital working mined pig nonstop. 2nd city to the north, doesn't require workerT really, but improved sheep anyway, then back to chopping. That city grew on warrior and whips worker at size 4. 3rd city to the S, picked close cheap spot that can work a strong tile as I think I'm in time for copper anyway. Grow on warrior, whip worker size 2. Chopped under 3rd and 4th cities. Just got a forest growth that slows settling down by 1T but it doesn't matter. 4 cities, 4 workers by T50 is a fast start in my book.

"Army" is one warrior plus the initial scout but probably need more guys now. Only worried about the north, but I think Hari can handle two archers soon and copper is not that far off. Then ready for granaries and growth. 5th surely must grab some -res. Maybe settle on ivory and gems like a boss.