Humankind - Venetians discussion thread

[Eagle Pursuit]

 

[LeroyChenkins]

Excellent! I now know my first “must play” civilization in my first playthrough!

 

[mitsho]

Again, the Venetians are to me a political entity, not a culture on their own. First time disappointed, but it is what it is.

Can't believe we are already nearing the industrial era. Let's move on. ;-)

 

[CivLuvah]

Welp. There goes my dream of a proper Italian civ for a historical 4x game.

I realized that Humankind's city building mechanics are a great way to represent city-states, since (1) you're not actually dealing with a centralized state since there are no leaders in the first place and (2) one city controls a territory (or several), making the visualization easier.

 

[Narcisse]

My pick for Early Modern I think, they look really cool. I definitly prefer going with Merchant Venetians than Merchant Dutch.
An unexpected Emblematic Quartier, in the good way ! Really nice choice, Venetians cities will look really cool with it.
Excellent artwork, give me a strong thalassocracy vibe.
Nice work Amplitude.

I'm really curious about the city names they will use, only from their Italian conquests ? Or some names from their colonies (Zara for exemple ) ?

@mitsho I visited myself cities, outside italy, where the venetian culture is strongly present, in the history of these cities, their identity, their architecture ( church, plaza, houses and forts )...
I understand people being disapointed by Venetians, instead of another Italian culture for exemple, but saying they are not a culture on their own, it's just like contradicting historical facts imo

 

[BuchiTaton]

Again, the Venetians are to me a political entity, not a culture on their own. First time disappointed, but it is what it is.

Can't believe we are already nearing the industrial era. Let's move on. ;-)

From their design I think they were chosen to represent all of the early modern Italian states. Tuscany seems redundant considering Venetians are merchant but with an obvious aesthete element and Spanish already take the Catholic element of the Papal States.

 

[Narcisse]

Personally I am really sure they go with Venetians to not represent all the Italian city states. A lot of Italian citystates were not well-knowed as naval superpower as Venetians.
The Galeasse is typical of Venetians, if you want to show something blobish, you go with something like Condotierre.
Venetians have their own language, modern Italian is based on Tuscans.

I always expect Aesthete Tuscans as dlc later; I can't believe than Venetians encompass all italian cultures for the game. Tuscans could be an archetype than a lot of cultures can choose for the Renaissance ideas, for exemple, going from Franks -> Tuscans -> French

 

[ost]

Welp. There goes my dream of a proper Italian civ for a historical 4x game.

I wouldn't lose all hope just yet @CivLuvah ...

Well, I was just trying to imply that I don't disagree that Venice without Italy would feel strange to some people...

 

[mitsho]

@mitsho I visited myself cities, outside italy, where the venetian culture is strongly present, in the history of these cities, their identity, their architecture ( church, plaza, houses and forts )...
I understand people being disapointed by Venetians, instead of another Italian culture for exemple, but saying they are not a culture on their own, it's just like contradicting historical facts imo

Yes, up and down the adriatic coast. I've been as well, I'm not sure thats Venetian though, it's rather "renaissance italian + adriatic". Again, culture is not a hard category with clear definitions, so it's a viable choice to do it. There is no right or wrong here. I just don't feel it. In comparison with the big empires, it just feels out of place.

And it doesn't actually need a city list since you will not found many more cities in the later eras, so you might not even found Venice as the Venetians. But - and this is important - there are enough cities for them to fill a list of twenty if you want to.

(and yes, modern Italy seems likely as well)

 

[Narcisse]

And it doesn't actually need a city list since you will not found many more cities in the later eras, so you might not even found Venice as the Venetians. But - and this is important - there are enough cities for them to fill a list of twenty if you want to.

True, I think you are right ! I'm really curious about late game.
How will appear Industrial and Modern City Centers if we don't build new cities ?

 

[BuchiTaton]

I always expect Aesthete Tuscans as dlc later; I can't believe than Venetians encompass all italian cultures for the game. Tuscans could be an archetype than a lot of cultures can choose for the Renaissance ideas, for exemple, going from Franks -> Tuscans -> French

I think is better to pick Franks -> Spanish -> French, that way your French cities could get some actual Gothic Cathedrals

 

[Guandao]

Again, the Venetians are to me a political entity, not a culture on their own. First time disappointed, but it is what it is.

Can't believe we are already nearing the industrial era. Let's move on. ;-)

Don't forget we still have one more Early Modern faction left! Probably the delayed Ottomans.

As for Venice, I like having all the Italian CSs together in one faction, but I think the Italians will appear in a later era, so they went with a single Italian CS for Early Modern.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Personally I am really sure they go with Venetians to not represent all the Italian city states. A lot of Italian citystates were not well-knowed as naval superpower as Venetians.
The Galeasse is typical of Venetians, if you want to show something blobish, you go with something like Condotierre.
Venetians have their own language, modern Italian is based on Tuscans.

I always expect Aesthete Tuscans as dlc later; I can't believe than Venetians encompass all italian cultures for the game. Tuscans could be an archetype than a lot of cultures can choose for the Renaissance ideas, for exemple, going from Franks -> Tuscans -> French

The Emblematic Quarter is something that I would expect any Renaissance Italy culture to have though, as in it is clearly an artist's studio/workshop which were found all over Italy, especially in Florence.

 

[Jcturmer]

I think that Italy will be in the last era, with Ethiopia, in a WWII themed era.

 

[CivLuvah]

I think that Italy will be in the last era, with Ethiopia, in a WWII themed era.

There is no WWII era. WWII belongs to the last era (Modern Era) in this game.

 

[mitsho]

I think that is what he is saying, that the theme around the selection of civs and their style will be WW2, just as the Early Modern seems to have an East Asian focus for example.

Having said that, it will really be interesting how far the Industrial Era will stretch in this game. I can see both options, including WW2 into the industrial and making the modern era feel "contemporary" or making WW2 the center point of the modern era. Flight and Nuclear bombs are the distinguishing factors here even more than modern automatic weapons and digital information distribution.

In any case, Italy wouldn't be my top choice in both eras, they didn't do any exceptional stuff after all, but they did kinda become a cultural behemoth of the western world (Pizza and Pasta do define Western cuisine to a large degree, Fast Cars and the Mafia round out their cultural influence). So yeah, they do deserve a modern spot even if I again don't "feel" it. But then again, I associate modernity with the year 2020 and thus would rather expect a "European Union" Culture, but no, just no

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Modern Italy could work as a Agrarian faction thanks to it's robust agricultural sector and being the largest wine producer in the world! Italy runs a large trade surplus and produces many things both now and since the post war period and of course is well known as a major producer of luxury goods. Merchant or Aestheste could both work as well.

I think you could make a case for Industrial too but generally as a culture they are not one I feel strongly about being in the base game but I'd welcome them if they were.

 

[CivLuvah]

But then again, I associate modernity with the year 2020 and thus would rather expect a "European Union" Culture, but no, just no

As someone who studied the European Union for four years at university, a "European" modern culture based on the EU would feel forced... and cringy.

 

[Elhoim]

What would be interesting in the endgame would be the possibility to create alliances similar to the EU or the USSR.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Power blocs should definitely be in there if they have the time. The Grand Coalitions, Axis, Allies, Warsaw pact, Nato. They played a big part in diplomacy and much more important things to represent than the UN for instance.

 

[Narcisse]

East versus West ... heu... Ecologists versus Ecosceptics