Humble request concerning the next Deity xOTM.

[LowtherCastle]

I don't know when the next deity xOTM is planned (if ever), but so far there has been only 1 deity level CIV xOTM. Some of us have been patiently waiting for the next deity competition and I'd like to request that when the time comes for another one that you fine and decent Admins

grace us with an un-nerfed Deity game.​

Now, I realize that the one deity level game we did play was won by only one person.... Nonetheless, with all due respect to AlanH ainwood for daring to give us a deity game , that game was nerfed:

GOTM 15: Huayna Capac

Game settings:
Difficulty: Deity

Contender Class Bonuses

• Start with one extra Archer and one extra Worker.

On the other hand, I understand that the xOTM is competition for all levels of players and you may feel compelled to water the map down a bit to give more people a chance. In that case, I humbly suggest that you provide the Adventurer level version with five Modern Armour on pangaea, or whatever...

If I may borrow from Moonsinger, I think she best describes what I'm trying to say (although in a different context):

The map generator god has been working hard to ensure a balance starting position for everyone.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm saying. Give us a balanced starting position and let us have at it... Please do not take this request to mean I am attempting to dictate anything about the map settings, choice of leader, or whether you mapfind us the 'best' starting position, compared to the AIs.

I think there are number of us who have improved as CIV players since GOTM15 and I, personally, would just like a chance to compete with the others on the deity-level difficulty as designed by Sid Meier and associates.

 

[Erkon]

I played the challenger version in GOTM15 since I wanted a pure deity game. I lost.

I'm fine with Contender having a bonus for those who struggle with Immortal, and Adventure having a significant bonus for those who struggle with Emperor, and I'm fine with the Challenger save having no changes (i.e. pure deity). I'm more interested in a map that is not adjusted to our advantage such as adding resources close to our starting position. Then again, I presume the staff will generate a few maps before finding one that is winnable...

So, even if I disagree with LC regarding the contender save, I agree with his wish for a game the way Sid designed it. And I also agree that it's time for a challenge for once. The last couple of Immortal games have been for kids really. Give us a chance to loose for gods sake!

 

[LowtherCastle]

I played the challenger version in GOTM15 since I wanted a pure deity game. I lost.

I'm fine with Contender having a bonus for those who struggle with Immortal, and Adventure having a significant bonus for those who struggle with Emperor, and I'm fine with the Challenger save having no changes (i.e. pure deity). I'm more interested in a map that is not adjusted to our advantage such as adding resources close to our starting position. Then again, I presume the staff will generate a few maps before finding one that is winnable...

So, even if I disagree with LC regarding the contender save, I agree with his wish for a game the way Sid designed it. And I also agree that it's time for a challenge for once....Give us a chance to loose for gods sake!

I thought about your point for quite a while before my original post. My argument against help for the contender is that contender is the real thing, according to the GOTM rule set. Therefore, giving the contender save any advantage is a nerf. Period.

What I don't care about is if no one plays the challenger save (in this particular case).

 

[Munro]

I'm with you on the un-nerfed deity request - though I don't really care whether it's the challenger / contender save etc - as long as enough of us choose the same un-nerfed version (and I'll be in that camp), we should be good.

Roll on deity!

 

[Gnejs]

Give us a chance to loose for gods sake!

Couldn't agree more! Sure, I lose the odd Immortal game (and emperor WOTMs to barb conquest too... ) but a Deity game would level the field and let everyone experience the same feeling...

The last Deity game was one of the most fun GOTMs so far even though I lost. Winning or losing has nothing to do with fun for me, but playing a very close game where the outcome is never certain until the AIs finally beat you (or you them) is the Civ experience that I am looking for.

 

[jesusin]

I could have won that Deity game... but didn't. So I am waiting for a revenge. It was the second most fun game I've played.

I don't think the last Immortal game is for kids, thiough.

 

[ngraner42]

If we go with a plain start for the Challenger save, please allow the Adventurer save for those of us who are good enough to finish in the top 50%, but have no chance against Deity. Some of us do not enjoy a certain loss.

At this point I am happy to take on Immortal with a normal start (no wins yet), but I would skip a normal start Deity game.

 

[Sarek]

Give us a chance to loose for gods sake!

Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.
I can safely lose at any level above Prince...quite regularly in fact...but I'm always up for a challenge.
In fact, with the WOTM and GOTM still going strong, in addition to the BOTM, bring it on! There's plenty of Civ to go around and you're right, chances are everyone has learned alot since the previous Diety game and we all might surprise ourselves?!?

 

[JerichoHill]

I concur about an un-nerfed challenger save for Deity. I Know I will lose, but I want to lose on those terms

 

[AlanH]

Nonetheless, with all due respect to AlanH for daring to give us a deity game , that game was nerfed

I'm afraid I can't accept either the credit or the brickbats for GOTM 15. I have never designed a game/map in my life, and I would never dare to try to set a Deity game ... and certainly not in Civ4, which I've never even played to completion!

I'm just the bean counter around here. If my name appears on a game release post, please rest assured that I was only posting it for a friend.

 

[LowtherCastle]

I'm afraid I can't accept either the credit or the brickbats for GOTM 15. I have never designed a game/map in my life, and I would never dare to try to set a Deity game ... and certainly not in Civ4, which I've never even played to completion!

I'm just the bean counter around here. If my name appears on a game release post, please rest assured that I was only posting it for a friend.

My apologies to you and ainwood. When I was putting this post together yesterday, I misread this part of your post:

Ainwood went off on his holidays and left a GOTM 15 save for us to chew over until he gets back. So here are some details for you to ponder for the next few days.

For some reason, my (obviously gloopo) understanding was that you had put together the game in ainwood's absence.

Anyway, the reason I mentioned it yesterday was to acknowledge the author's best intentions and at the same time make my plea for an unadulterated game. The last thing I wanted to do was throw brickbats, cast aspersions, or in any way dampen the spirits of you dedicated and hugely appreciated Admins. I hope you all can understand that this should in no way be taken as a criticism of your efforts--but rather a request that arises solely from the scarcity of deity games. In other words, since there are so few deity xOTMs, I wanted to request that the next one be 'pure.'

And yes, I too expect to lose it..., but I'm going to try my darnedest. I have been playing a few deity games where I pick only deity level and pangaea, leave everything else random, and IT IS A BEAR. So I'm not sure how ainwood or whoever will succeed in

finding one that is winnable...

but ultimately, that's our problem, not yours, isn't it?

 

[Lexad]

Persians, Big and Small, neighbours have no metals nearby.

 

[azzaman333]

A Diety BotM would be a nice break from the relatively easy ones so far, even though I can guarantee I'll lose

 

[Tosti11]

I started playing GOTM at 18 so i missed losing Gotm 15. If my two sense get thrown in the pot i would vote for a vanilla GOTM (so i could play it). Having just won my first Immortal game ever (GOTM 28) I feel as though i am ready to at least try a deity game. If it weren't for these competitions i would probably still be bouncing around between prince and monarch, so i think pushing the difficulty helps everyone at some level. Now to help more people in a more productive way i would suggest the Challenger save be "as Sid designed it," the Contender be nerferd, and the adventurer be more nerfed. THat way the best players can have a go at a deity game, and the rest of us can get a taste of the hardest level. I think this scenario would appeal to more players, and not waste a whole save class on a small number of players. Just my thoughts

 

[MacBalt]

I don't think the last Immortal game is for kids, thiough.

Ugh, me either!

...i would suggest the Challenger save be "as Sid designed it," the Contender be nerferd, and the adventurer be more nerfed. THat way the best players can have a go at a deity game, and the rest of us can get a taste of the hardest level.

Having barely survived GOTM 28, I'm tempted to agree with this point of view. (On the other hand though, losing to an un-nerfed contender version might not feel as bad as losing to a double-nerfed adventurer version! ) Still, if such a "nerf and double-nerf" system were followed, then I think there would also have to be significant score penalties for both the contender and adventurer saves. As this would break with standing GOTM rules I think there is only a small chance the idea would be entertained by the staff. Also, while I know the GOTM is a great thing in a whole variety of ways, I'm convinced it was created to be in some fundamental sense a competition. I'm afraid changing the scoring system for one game would tend to work against that basic identity.

Maybe an alternative would be to introduce a fourth category only for Diety games? Then it might go something like: "Explorer" "Adventurer" "Contender" "Challenger"? The "Explorer" version would then be double-nerfed in both advantages and score? (Or maybe even just not scored at all? Or perhaps given some sort of flatline score just for participating?)

Of course, since we're talking Diety, maybe we could even re-name the classes to something more appropriate, like, say: "Sancho Panza Version" "Don Quixote Version" "Cervantes Version" and "Obormort/Jesusin/Cactus Pete/Lexad/and other Demi-gods Version"? Whatcha think?

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I think LowtherCastle's original suggestion is fine:

grace us with an un-nerfed Deity game.​

Adventurer: some bonuses
Contender: as Sid designed it
Challenger: some handicaps

I can see where the debate comes in. Leaving it "as Sid designed" still allows the difficulty of a random map to range from "easier" to "impossible" due to the map type/leader/AI position/start position etc. I'd say just leave it up to the staff.

The satisfaction of beating a "random" (i.e. not weighted in favour of the player in every way possible - as I've been known to do for HoF games!) Deity level game would be pretty big for me too.

 

[LowtherCastle]

The satisfaction of beating a "random" (i.e. not weighted in favour of the player in every way possible - as I've been known to do for HoF games!) Deity level game would be pretty big for me too.

My problem is more with doctoring the map by adding or removing resources, as Erkon mentioned, or adding units like a worker, than using Mapfinder to find a really good starting position. Mapfinder only gives you maps as designed by Sid. Personally, I'm okay on that. Each map invariably gives some players better starting positions than others and one player gets the best. If that's an AI, with all his built-in advantages, I think the human player may be doomed.

 

[da_Vinci]

For the question of deity and the various save categories, is there really any demand for a handicapped diety save (challenger by the book)? The answer to that may also answer the question of whether the "pure" game is contender or challenger when difficulty is deity.

dV

 

[MarkM]

A Diety BotM would be a nice break from the relatively easy ones so far, even though I can guarantee I'll lose

Please, can we have an Emperor game on BOTM, before going straight to deity?

The polling done last year shows that xOTM players self-rate Emperor as their most typical playing level. But we have yet to have an Emperor level BOTM.

 

[Thrallia]

really? I woulda sworn Monarch had the most votes...