Hunting First?

[Wrathful]

Came across an interesting start recently and I thought I might share it. It's a standard immortal fractal map where you start with deer in the BFC. I very rarely get deer (or any hunting resource) in the BFC, so it might be a fun change of pace.

Settings:

• Immortal
• Fractal
• Standard size (6 AIs)
• No huts, no events
• Standard climate and sea level

Leader:

Spoiler Leader :

A strong leader with excellent starting techs and good traits. It's always fun to play with Charismatic.

The Start:

Spoiler Start :

I don't know how hard this map will be. We're definitely near the northern edge of the map; you can even see tundra 4 tiles east of the settler. Barbarians might be a problem if there's lots of tundra to the north.

I think I would move the warrior SW, then settle on the plains hill 1S of the settler. We get the extra and the sheep. Loses crab, but that can be grabbed with a second city on the plains hill 3E of settler's current position. Such a city would be very easy to connect to our capital, and it could share two riverside grassland cottages. Moving south also blocks a bit more land and seems to grab more forest.

Early tech path might be Hunting > AH. Hunting first to save beakers. Sheep only yields 1 more but the bonus we would get from knowing hunting while researching AH should outweigh that. More scouting is needed before anything further can be decided.

 

[Fippy]

Would SIP if warri move shows nothing exciting,
decent chance that you miss out on something north / nw if moving, and no way of knowing.
(while you can get full view on ph radius)

Hunting & fishing would be reasonable, both cheap and can build a boat after worker.
Nappy also gets cheap lighthouses, crab would then actually be your strongest (visible) food resi.

GLH is speculation before seeing more, but you would also keep that option open with SIP

 

[krikav]

I'm not sure I would move warrior SW.

If SIP or 1S (or 2S) is better we can't really know.
I think I would play this opening:
T0: Warrior E, stop and evaluate (if riverside corn or something other yummy I would move settler 1E, otherwise...
T0: Settler 1S, evalutate.
T1: Warrior SW to climb the hill for lots of vision.

 

[krikav]

There is no shame in moving around the settler just for scouting abit, and then realizing that SIP was really best and move back. This is such an opening IMO.
Oh, and early hunting can be an idea, lots of tundra might mean lots of barbs...
But With so many different types of food, AH might not come into play for a long time, and hunting might be postponed as well.
It is possible to farm both the deer and the sheep, 3F1H1C tiles aren't great, but it's not horrid either.

 

[krikav]

I played T0 and T1, loading up the map changed my ideas of moving slightly.
Screenshot and reasoning:

Spoiler :

T0, moved warrior SE, mostly to reveal the riverside grass which was empty. I didn't move E. The idea with E is that you can move NE to reveal all of the coast on T1.
But inland felt better, so wanted the possibility of warrior T1 SE open.
T0 Settler I went first N to see all of the coast so that I don't walk away from fishes. But since I didn't see anything I moved SE to the forest S of crab.
Now warrior has moved SE again and this is revealed:

Now I will probably settle. Being content with crab-sheep-deer capital and a 15turn worker.

 

[Wrathful]

I forgot about the ORG lighthouse boost. That makes the crab more valuable. Maybe I was too eager to convince myself to move onto the plains hill.

I tended to follow krikav's movement advice, although I was very interested in seeing the land to the south.

Spoiler To Turn 7 :

Moved warrior SE to check the green riverside tile. Moved settler 1S. Result:

Nothing very appealing, although you can see flood plains far to the south. Next turn I will move the warrior SW. But SIP seems best here.

The warrior found silk. I moved the settler back to his original position and gambled on hidden stuff in the original BFC. After all, the game has to place at least 3 resources there, right?

Found nothing. Surely I have horse or copper...or uranium? At least there's no tundra to the north.

Not sure what to tech. I can wait until turn 5 to choose. I will build a worker in the capital.

Decided on Hunting first. The extra hammer makes deer a better early tile than crab, yes?

Early scouting reports were fairly bleak, but we did find more sheep. Actually that spot might be a better second city.

I stopped because I don't know what to research next. I am leaning towards fishing to immediately start on a work boat after getting out the worker.

Can't really skip AH here with two sheep resources.

Haven't met anybody yet. Isolation? I have found coast to the north, east, and south.

Spoiler krikav :

You went for the safer route and it paid off. Now you have three decent tiles in your capital. I probably shouldn't have gambled on hidden resources. Even if I do have copper or horse, sheep is probably stronger.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler :

It's not the end of the world. I don't think highly of plains sheep.
You now have a capital with alot of hills. Have you counted the hills and the available food? How much can you cottage?

I think hunting first is best, with the sheep I went AH after that, but with your capitals position I think you need to go hunting->fishing.
The green sheep/floodplains spot is nice. Lots of green hills, I'm thinking heroic epic whenever I see such a spot.

 

[ArchGhost]

I did this whole theory crafting thing about this and wasted a bunch of my time.

Simpler look is 1S or 1SE are both better even not know what's west.

1S gets you the strongest cap you can if you settle 2nd city on PH east of the crab to share cottages and boat the crabs.

1SE will grab all 3 foods and push for the interior: South or West as it kills the NorthEast corner unless there's another seafood of the coast over there; it's not appealing otherwise to settle that way.

SiP is very hammer heavy but missing the sheep hurts. If you wanted to push archers/chariots (assuming BFC horses on AH) and have a stronger 2nd city it's good.

 

[Wrathful]

Spoiler krikav :

Looks like there's six green tiles to cottage in my capital. Several hills. And the grassland sheep city does look pretty nice.

Fishing next it is.

Spoiler To T13 :

Research set to Fishing. The explorer warrior was feeling pretty sad at the moment, having only discovered one sheep and some worthless silk, but then he found this:

The question is: do I settle this immediately, or wait a bit? It's only five commerce...happiness is not crucial, we are charismatic. The spot marked "City 3" is much stronger long term. But is that important? If we're isolated, probably...

Of course, if I find fish by the silver the decision is much easier. So I will definitely scout there.

Buddhism founded Turn 9. Still haven't met anyone. Guessing isolation, although fractal can play tricks on you. I will have to send out a work boat to explore.

The warrior fended off a pack of wolves but got wounded. I had to stay and heal for the remainder of the turnset.

Finished Fishing on Turn 13. I once again am not sure what to research. If I had to choose I would say Mining, to give my worker something to do and get closer to BW. Of course, I could always build roads. It feels a bit early for AH and Pottery.

 

[krikav]

If my scouts/warrior-scouts get into a fight, I walk at least one turn, maybe two, in the direction the foe came from, if I am interested in the area in question.
The probability for another barbarian is much lower, than it is in unknown territory. Still it can happen, and if I really need the warrior I let him heal.

I think I would go for mining as well. A mined 4h plains hill is not a nice tile, but as long as it is used to build workers/settlers then it's just as good as a 4F tile.

Regarding my questions about counting available food, this is what I had in mind:
Deer, citycenter and crabs give you a 7F surplus.
That will let you work 3 grassland hills and two plains hills for 19hammers at population 8. (Silver, monument)
If you want to work more you have to farm the green tiles.
If you still cottage the riverside, the city will be a pain to grow.
I would not rely on this capital for cottages/burocracy.

 

[plasmacannon]

SPOILER ALERT. I included a screenshot.
This looked like a fun start, so I thought I'd try it too.
I settled in place and sent the starting warrior scouting the coastline clockwise looking for good seafood resources.
Build was Worker, 3 Warriors, workboat, more warriors for fogbusting.
Teched: Hunting, Fishing, Mining, Sailing, Bronze Working, Animal Husbandry, Masonry, Pottery, Iron Working, Writing, Alphabet. I ignored the religious techs and built libraries when I needed more culture.
I settled my 1st city Orleans to the WSW 1 East of the Sheep on a hill. Good defense from barbs and whatever may lie beyond to the west and with so many I could spare the loss of 1 hill.
As I was thinking of building The Great Lighthouse from the start, my next city Lyons went 2 south of the eastern sheep on the coast.

Spoiler Expanding further :

Still No Copper in sight and saw the edge of an Orange empire to the west, so my 3rd city Tours went 1S of the Fish near the silver to claim my border and gain an happy resource.
4th City Rheims was settled to claim the Sheep, Marble and Flood Plains to the south-west on a river coast tile. Solidifying my border with the Dutch.
I completed The Great Light house and went for the Pyramids.
Found Iron on a hill I had already mined, so that made up for the lack of early Copper.
Barb archers popped up occasionally forcing my to withdraw my warrior fogbusters to the south. So of course a barb city popped up.
Luckily it was on the river and coast 1NW of the Clam. Just where I wanted one anyway.
I lost the Pyramids 2 turns before it was completed. Not happy, but with all that fail gold I upgraded most of my warriors to Axemen, built 3 swordsmen to crack any archers and went after that Barb city capturing Alemanni.
Even with Open borders with WvO, he decided declared war on me dropping off 2 catapults near Rheims. Quickly beaten.
My stack was headed up for defense wherever it might be needed, when 3 galleys dropped off a stack west of the silver. This time they didn't forget the Axemen. I made it in time to defend Tours.
I massed an army and headed west conquering Nijmemen, WvO's only city on my continent gaining a GG for my Capitol.
It was also where he founded Taoism, so I got a holy city in the process. Which worked out great to rebuff WvO's culture from across the coast. He also has a decent tech lead over me.
I met Montezuma. He must have liked my warmonger phase and welcomed Open Borders with me.
I didn't want to destroy relations with him by switching to Taoism yet. I want to be able to trade techs with him and catch up to WvO.
A barb galley took out my Clam and my 1st galley sent to protect it. I sent a new galley now with Withdrawl1 around to finish it off and grab Navigation1 for the extra speed.
I continued clockwise to investigate a bit of WvO's city and started amassing galleys for an amphibious assault of my own.
Seeing a Longbowmen in his Capitol Amsterdam, I know this won't be easy without catapults, so my assault is on hold.
The year is 1010AD. I have 9 cities and control my continent. I have a nice stack on WvO's border and I'm 2 turns from Construction. A good point to save and take a screenshot.

 

[plasmacannon]

I'd like to hear from others. I'm having a tough time with WvO. Once he DOW'd on me, he refuses to declare peace. He rapidly out techs me.

Spoiler Tough times :

I have had at least 4 stacks of his dropped off to deal with. Some with Knights. I even lost Rheims for 2 turns. So I'm playing defensive.
I am about to get Caravels to help defend my Galleys and try to send Macemen, Xbows and Trebs over for an attack.
I have been getting attacked by his 4 Airships. He also has 3 East Indiamen, 4 Riflemen and others in his Capitol.
Earlier Kublai Khan asked if I would declare war on Aztecs. I did and it boosted our relations. He founded Hinduism. It's been adopted by Aztec and Spain. I decided to switch to it also for the "brother and sisters of the faith" bonus. It's working. None of the others are declaring war on me yet. Hopefully, They will join my fight vs Dutch.

Spoiler Most Powerful Civilizations :

I decided to play longer. I sent some Caravels out exploring the oceans, hoping to discover allies.

Spoiler Scouted :

I found Justinian and Sitting Bull. I purchase Sitting Bull's World Map. Awesome! It showed the whole thing. However, now that he knew where I was, he DOW'd on me a few turns later. Seeing str 15 Cavalry with seige vs my xbows, I knew this was over.

 

[krikav]

@plasmacannon
I think it's best if you put game details in spoilers. Not sure if wrath is still playing this game, but I have at least plans to revisit it if time permits, but right now I'm focusing on the NC Ramesses game.

 

[plasmacannon]

@plasmacannon
I think it's best if you put game details in spoilers. Not sure if wrath is still playing this game, but I have at least plans to revisit it if time permits, but right now I'm focusing on the NC Ramesses game.

Done.