Hurrah for Firetuner!

[hobbsyoyo]

Before I start...I know cheating is bad, mkay?

I just wanted to create a thread about how people use Firetuner to cheat in CiV.

For me, it honestly just makes the game more fun to play. I like the challenge of Deity where the AI can spam out any unit, wonder, city it wants. But I'm not nearly good enough or micromanagement-oriented to compete effectively.

So I drop a bunch of resources around my capital and a nice chunk of gold into my coffers and voila!

I also (but I did this alot more in CIV than CIV b/c of 1UPT) often give the AI's extra units/more advanced units to make it more challenging when I start to steamroll them.

I do miss the worldbuilder from CIV that gave me more options (I could pick which exact tech the AI or myself got, form/break alliances...etc) than the firetuner. It made it easier to roleplay because I could basically force the AI to play the part I wanted it to.

I know people are going to hate me for cheating...but it's just fun.

What do you use firetuner for?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I guess I'm the only cheater out there.

 

[petey]

I've never tried Firetuner, but I like using the ingame editor mod to beef up the resources next to my starting city before playing.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

That sounds alot like the worldbuilder editor from CIV. Personally, although I use Firetuner, the worldbuilder was much more flexible. Plus, you didn't have to run civ in windowed mode so you could accomodate a seperater program. Firetuner works with CiV but is a sep program, worldbuilder was INSIDE CIV. I'll have to try your mod. what's it called?

 

[DGDobrev]

I suppose it is worth doing this for One-city challenge on higher difficulties, where you are bound to lack a certain resource. Both the editor and this program will at least give you some leverage

 

[Ex.plode]

Why not just play on settler?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Why not just play on settler?

Because I like to actively manipulate the planet sometimes.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

And Settler is NOT fun, because on Settler-Warlord the AI will slowly be lagging in technology to the point where you're in Information/Future Era and they're still at the end of Renaissance.

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

Is there not a mod that makes the AI not able to do anything you can't?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I don't know

 

[hobbsyoyo]

And Settler is NOT fun, because on Settler-Warlord the AI will slowly be lagging in technology to the point where you're in Information/Future Era and they're still at the end of Renaissance.

+1 exactly

 

[DGDobrev]

Yeah, I second that as well. Settler difficulty is just to have fun with the AI and try out different tactics (like doing space victory the game through tons of RA's). Even a mediocre player, who does not micromanage and does not follow a pre-set development path like myself, can play on difficulties above Prince. I tried 5 races already and managed to out-tech the AI big time. As an example, last game was technically monty (me) vs washington - one turn before I launched the ship, Washington completed the Manhattan project. You see what I mean

 

[whyidie]

This is the first version of Civ where I haven't used cheats. Not entirely sure why..

In prior versions I would cheat like crazy. Never cheated to "win", cheated to enhance or lengthen the story. If the game was moving too fast, I would cheat to hamper another AI from overwhelming the others. Or I would give myself 3 advanced units and one or two cities (would rarely play with a large empire) and try to focus on some unique city development.

 

[Martock]

Because I like to actively manipulate the planet sometimes.

I'm very much the same way. I love using the ingame editor to do this, though I tend to edit the game from the very beginning. I spruce up all starting positions, not just my own and then plop down all the wonders. I've also used the IGE to 'save' AI's from certain doom if only cuz I didn't feel like losing a trading partner or punching bag. I've also been using it to help the AI if I was starting to run away with the techs. I'd bump them all so they were 3 techs behind me...and that's cost me a game or two already. I don't cheat to ensure I win though. Mainly just like to use the IGE to modify the terrain.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I love propping up failing AIs. It's no fun playing higher difficulty (without cheating myself) where the AI gets rediculous bonuses to overwhelm me. I wish diffuclty settings meant it played better, not cheated harder.

On the other had, I don't like playing lower difficulties that make me the runaway from the ancient era on.

I gift a lot more units to the AI than I do myself. I just wish I could efficiently gift techs and make/break diplomatic arrangements with the recklessness I could enjoy with the CIV worldbuilder.

 

[thadian]

Im with you hobbs.

Imagine playing chess against an opponent who:

plays black and goes first
moves 2 pieces per turn
has +30 seconds on their clock
you have -20 seconds on your clock
you start without bishops
your opponent gets to choose your first 5 moves


And this opponent is not at all cheating, the opponent is SO BAD that only by giving it these handicaps can a "normal game occur" - where a normal game is defined as 2 different rule-sets.

Its like playing magic the gathering against a mono-green turbomana deck that has a custom rule that it gets to draw 7 cards every time it plays the last card in hand.

However bad a game is against the AI, it is always better than playing a human because the depth of the game just goes on a downhill spiral defined by who had a good map for sword rush. Most online games i tried to play lasted less than 100 turns - usually one small thing and the whole table quits. Ive also seen a few games where one player would gift all his gold and units to another throughout the game -

The best thing i can say about my Civ5 multiplayer experience is that its like playing turn based age of empires grunt rush against halo teenage rage types with an IQ + age = 14. These people think the WWE is real sports and that action movies are documented facts. These people get all their facts in life from Rush Limbaugh and Al Sharpton. These people wash themselves with sweaty armpits and when you tell them that the sky is blue they will argue about the term definition of blue, and at night time, they will text you "Look bro, sky is black". These people are the scum of the earth, and however bad the AI is, at least the AI is better than those people. Dirp is the biggest word they understand. They think Kraft cheese 'n mac is fine dining.

There, i said it and i meant it.

Now, Fire Tuner is a good way to test things and set up situations to see if something happens as intended. However it has a few issues:


If you create a religion unit, it has no spread faith uses or religion. You can not create or kill a spy. You can not locate spies in different cities or check where they are. Sometimes, when placing units you cant just place 5-6 in a group, you have to alt-tab each time to uncheck/recheck the box. didn't happen until G+K.

Also, you can auto-play however the civ you "are" will die when you start the auto-play and that will skew the results. Unfortunately, you can't let the AI control ALL civ's for 30 turns - 100 turns and play in the aftermath.

You can't hide the terrain once you reveal it. You can't use diplomatic functions. In the end, IGE, Ingame Editor Mod is the best world-builder replacement and i use it both for mod-testing and scenario making. and yes, i even "have a little fun" once in a while.

However, fire tuner can be modded however ive never gone that route. World Builder can be nice because you can set up maps and watch the fun.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

^^ Your assessment of the AI was spot on.

I'll admit I've never played online because I know I'm so cheat dependent I'll get creamed. Now I'm glad I haven't played online.

I haven't used Ingame Editor Mod. I actually haven't really gotten into mods across the entire civ serious, except those that come 'officially' with the game. I want to but....I don't know I just never do.

It took me months to discover there was such a thing as Firetuner, and weeks to learn to use it. I suspect it's more powerful than I'm giving it credit for and I'm not properly using it to it's full potential. But the worldbuilder cheat menu from CIV was just perfect, IMO.

 

[thadian]

well, the mods will enhance gameplay a LOT, check out the steam workshop. Whatever it is you hate about the game, there is probably a mod to fix.

Hate the AI starting out so far ahead? There is a mod that makes the AI not start with free pottery, want a mod that adds more income to the early game? there are mods that do that, want to change the game completely?

I suggest:

Community Call to Power, or Echoes of Ages. I also suggest Monarchy Plus. There are a lot of great mods out there, give them a try

 

[hobbsyoyo]

well, the mods will enhance gameplay a LOT, check out the steam workshop. Whatever it is you hate about the game, there is probably a mod to fix.

Hate the AI starting out so far ahead? There is a mod that makes the AI not start with free pottery, want a mod that adds more income to the early game? there are mods that do that, want to change the game completely?

I suggest:

Community Call to Power, or Echoes of Ages. I also suggest Monarchy Plus. There are a lot of great mods out there, give them a try

Community Call to Power?????? Is that a mod that turns CiV into CtP? I freakin loved that game

 

[thadian]

Well, its not a total Call to Power (i loved it too!) but it comes very close, and still has support of active modders.

Mods will change the way you play. Sum it up like this, you have the problem i USED to have.

You get in game, hoping for some fun. Lower difficulty is not fun at all, and higher difficulty seems "dumber" than low level difficulties. This is because you have to play a certain strategy and hit certain milestones or you lose. And you don't lose as a punishment for making a mistake, you don't lose because you were outsmarted or outmaneuvered - you lose because your opponent has 10x the numbers you have to work with.

So, after 3-5 games like this you get bored with every difficulty (because the only difference in difficulty is the AI modifiers) and "cheating" becomes a reprisal to the "stupidity" of the game. In fact, it does not feel dishonest to cheat because your already being cheated.

Well, about mods.

Some mods change a lot about the game, just enough that you can find a mod that makes the game how you like it. Playing games with mods just gives you more to do than build 4 libraries, build 12 units, build trading posts + markets and try to dummyrush before the AI launches a spaceship.

Think about the things you don't like in the game, write down a list of 5 things.

(mine are: 1. units obsolete too fast (i use slomo science 20%), 2. too plain, not enough depth. (Echoes of Ages/Monarchy Plus - Community Call to Power), 3. higher level AI starts at the 80 yard mark in the 100 yard dash (no AI free pottery), 4. I need more wonders (Plenty of solutions), 5. Watching AI aircraft is a nightmare, even in strategic view (faster aircraft animations).

5 things i dislike, fixed. now, i can "play a game" and enjoy myself - thats the beauty of civ, the ability to make the game how you want it to be (within the limits of the skills of the modders).

So give it a try and if your anything like me, your fire tuner usage rate will decrease as you find "fun" in other areas of the game. Your not flawed or bad - you just don't get enough pleasure out of the game so you have to take an extra step or two. Well, i had to take three and some have to take four. Cheers!