Hut popping?

[.Shane.]

So far as I can tell there are 3 ways to pop a hut:
1. Scout
2. Non-Scout unit
3. Cultural expansion

Now, I know that a scout is better than a non-scout unit, in terms of the likely outcomes, but where does cultural expansion fit?

The point I'm getting at, if you have a hut that will be in your eventual fatcross and you have a warrior, is it better to pop it w/ the warrior OR let the cultural expansion do it and, thus, not waste movement traveling across an already known area?

Obviously, this assumes that you don't think any rivals are close enough to pop the hut while you wait out the cultural expansion.

 

[binhthuy71]

Maybe it's just the way that the game runs on my computer but I seem to get better results from huts when I pop them with a warrior. Scouts generally get maps, experience or money. The majority of my technology hut pops have come from warriors.

 

[DarkSchneider]

This is fairly anectodal evidence, but I have yet to see a cultural pop resulting in a negative outcome (IE angry natives). Virtually all of the culural pops have given small money payouts.

 

[Sisiutil]

AFAIK, based on another poster who looked at the game's XML code, the only difference between popping a hut with a Scout versus another unit is that a Scout NEVER pops barbs.

I would imagine that popping through border expansion also never spawns this result.

 

[jimbob27]

Yeah, i remember a post where somebody had some some extensive tests, where he popped tons of huts with warriors and scouts, and the results were almost identical.

 

[.Shane.]

Well, my anecdotal evidence says scouts are better than non-scouts. That said, has anyone ever got anything OTHER than money from a culture pop?

Side-question: Since some people here have looked into the files, does anyone have a breakdown of possible outcomes w/ % chances anywhere?

 

[NKVD]

All i know is that the supposed better results are always money and maps for me. My favorite thing to pop is of course a settler. All i know is that I never poped one with a scout...poped like 4 or 5 since I have the game all with warriors

 

[Mango]

I'll run some tests on the idea that culture pops only result in money.

edit: I got mostly money, but also maps and scouts as well. Not technology, no barbs.


Settlers and scouts are my favorite things to pop. Settlers are by far the best. Scouts are great if you pop one with a warrior (the sooner the better). Money is good since it lets you keep your research at 100% once you found your second and third city. Technology is a mixed bag. It has the potential to be the best, especially when you pop something like pottery or the wheel. I've popped fishing before though on pangaia maps and to me that is worse than 40 gold. The great thing is when you get optics and send someone to unexplored islands with huts still unpopped. Nothing like popping astronomy.

 

[The Great Apple]

A scout/explorer will never get barbs. I'm not sure about culture - I'll see if I can find it.

Percentages vary with difficulty.

Noble:
High Gold: 3/21
Low Gold: 4/21
Map: 2/21
Warrior: 2/21
Scout: 1/21
Experience: 2/21
Healing: 1/21
Tech: 2/21
Weak Barbs: 2/21
Strong Barbs: 2/21

If you can't get any of them (healing with full health, or barbs) the chances of all the others go up.

BTW - you can look it up in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml for different difficulties.


EDIT: Looked it up. No bad goodies from culture, and you also can't get experience or healing - so it's more like this for noble:

High Gold: 3/14
Low Gold: 4/14
Map: 2/14
Warrior: 2/14
Scout: 1/14
Tech: 2/14

 

[.Shane.]

All i know is that the supposed better results are always money and maps for me. My favorite thing to pop is of course a settler. All i know is that I never poped one with a scout...poped like 4 or 5 since I have the game all with warriors

/spits up

Ok, in C4 you can get a settler from a hut?

I've NEVER EVER EVER HAD THAT HAPPEN in C4.

I've seen:
tech
scouts
warriors
xp
gold
barbs
map

Anything else?

 

[NKVD]

The great thing is when you get optics and send someone to unexplored islands with huts still unpopped. Nothing like popping astronomy.

happened to me on my last game. Hathy discovered a big island which I was not waiting for since i was on Pangea...everybody was demanding Military Tradition for it. the turn before I was angry for not having pursue astronomy before my explorer from a caravel poped astronomy!

anyway for me civs that starts with a scout is not that great of an advantage

 

[.Shane.]

A scout/explorer will never get barbs. I'm not sure about culture - I'll see if I can find it.

Percentages vary with difficulty.

Noble:
High Gold: 3/21
Low Gold: 4/21
Map: 2/21
Warrior: 2/21
Scout: 1/21
Experience: 2/21
Healing: 1/21
Tech: 2/21
Weak Barbs: 2/21
Strong Barbs: 2/21

If your unit is a scout/explorer change all those 21s to 17s and remove the barbs.

BTW - you can look it up in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml for different difficulties.

Given your sig, I'll take it that these are factual numbers from the code and not guesswork?

What is healing? I don't think I've ever got that. If it is what I think it is, what if your unit is fully healed already? Does it default to XP? Do those # of chances change at all relative to difficulty level?

edit: my bad, of course as you said the chances change w/ difficulty. That said, is there a chart anywhere of the chances relative to difficulty?

 

[NKVD]

/spits up

Ok, in C4 you can get a settler from a hut?

I've NEVER EVER EVER HAD THAT HAPPEN in C4.

I've seen:
tech
scouts
warriors
xp
gold
barbs
map

Anything else?

poped 3 like I said in numerous games... there are also healing. But my guess is that if your unit is fully heal it will generate another random goodie

and it seems that huts give me maps 1/3 of the time... I prefer having barbs for the XP than a map)

Edit: by looking at the numbers of the great apple I believe goodies only gave me settlers back when I was playing Warlord (the level under Noble) that would explain why I didnt get any in my last games

 

[The Great Apple]

You can't get a settler on anything above Warlord.

If you get one you can't get for any reason (fully healed unit/no barbs/city) it re-rolls it up to 10 times, before giving up and giving you nothing.

The best way to look up the probabilities is to go into CIV4HandicapInfo.xml. Each difficulty level has lots of <GoodyType> entries, and the more there are the more likely it is to happen.

The noble code looks like this for example:

<Goodies>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_SCOUT</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_EXPERIENCE</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_EXPERIENCE</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_HEALING</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_WEAK</GoodyType>
	<GoodyType>GOODY_BARBARIANS_STRONG</GoodyType>
</Goodies>

21 entries in total, and the frequency of each one is the chance it'll occur in 21 (high gold 3/21 as there are 3 entries, for example)

 

[drkodos]

I wonder how "goody healing" is implemented when the unit is at full strength.

 

[.Shane.]

Nice. Per your edited post it looks like the Culture pop is a great way to pop a hut.

 

[The Great Apple]

I wonder how "goody healing" is implemented when the unit is at full strength.

It isn't. Instead it randomly selects a different one.

 

[.Shane.]

Yeah, anyone know what happens if you dice healing but you're unit doesn't need it? edit: answered, per Great Apple, its a re-roll.

Also, again, this could be good luck, but it seems that you don't ever get barbarians from the first 2-3 huts. Is there basis in fact for this or have I just been lucky?

 

[The Great Apple]

As far as I can tell it's luck.

EDIT: Oh wait, it's not.

If you have no cities you will never get barbs. If you have one city and the hut is within 7 tiles (with diagonals counting as 1.5, rounding down) of your city then it'll never pop barbs either. Also, if you have barbs turned off, you will never get barbs.

Interestingly, you also can't get a warrior if it's within the first 20 turns, or a multiplayer game. Presumably when testing they found it could unbalance the start and allow for easy rushes.

 

[.Shane.]

Oh, great apple, do you know are these values unchanged in C4W?