[BTS] I don’t understand city specialization

[Dellik]

I am fairly new to this game, and I have heard that it is best to specialize all cities so that some are commerce, some are production, and one is a great person farm. I see the benefit in this; it would take an ungodly amount of hammers to build every building in every city, so it is better to only build those buildings which suit a city’s specialization- bank for commerce, forge and barracks for production for example. The nature of great people points and only being able to build a wonder in one city also support this. Ideally you would factor in specialization when determining city location: build great person farm where there is plenty of food, production cities where there are plenty of hammers, and commerce cities where there is plenty of coins. Unfortunately, the random generation of maps does not conform to such a strict framework. Most of the time, the land tends to yield cities that are mixed in terms of the three main resources. Only in rare scenarios does a city have overwhelmingly more hammers to coins or coins to hammers. If my production city also has high commerce, why shouldn’t I build a bank there? City specialization seems to be suited for an allocation of resources which does not occur in the average game.

I am eager to learn how to think and play better.

 

[AcaMetis]

In that specific example, because the production city would be better off building Wealth and negating the need for a Bank, since that only provides a benefit at less than 100% slider. Now if you've got a Shrine or corporate HQ in that city, than yes, absolutely build a Bank there. Or if you're building Banks for Wall Street, again, great place for a Bank. But otherwise it's better to focus on Wealth.

 

[rah]

Only in rare scenarios does a city have overwhelmingly more hammers to coins or coins to hammers.

The object then is to tailor your tile improvements to your goal. In your GP city, build farms. In your commerce city, build cottages. In your production city, build mines. Through your tile improvements you can make an overwhelming difference.

But while city specialization is always discussed here, hybrids are usually not that uncommon.

 

[lymond]

The concept of city specialization is probably a bit overrated or at least a product or result of over-thinking. A "great Person" type city is a good idea - high food, of course - but keep in mind that that does not preclude generating great people from other cities. Your first Great Scientist is usually coming from your Capital - likely for academy in said Capital. Depending on a cities food and overall needs they may at times run specialists. But a high food GP city can produce many over a course of a game. HOwever, by keeping some specialists active in more cities you can generate more GPs especially with well timed golden ages. Great Scientists usually valued early to mid-game for bulb strategies, with Great Merchants gaining in value late game for trade missions. Ofc, you might get the one off GP like great prophets, engineers, spy or artist which you can use as needed for more Golden Ages. Well, GEs good for rushing that valued wonder.

Anyway, I understand what you mean by the randomness of maps, but honestly that just justifies that paradigm of "playing the map". Nothing is really ever cookie cutter. However, generally you want your capital to be set up for Bureaucracy if it's location warrants (thinking river grass or flood plains) or you can move the palace at some point to a better locations. But the point here is your Capital is the #1 commerce city. Having other commerce cities is really a matter of your goals in the game or if you built the Mids (Great Pyramid) for early Representation.

And then the "Production Cities" is the real question mark here. Technically any city could be a "production city" because FOOD is PRODUCTION. But, yes, certainly a city could favor more hammers with mines and specials but you still want food in every city to grow on those hammers.

You also have the "helper city" . Cities settled strategically to overlap you capital to help cottage growth.

As for buildings, well, there is really only one building pretty much you want everywhere - the Granary. You don't even really need barracks. Forges are nice but not always needed. Everything else is situational.

 

[Swordnboard]

Yeah, city specialization has a few merits that you recognized above and/or were highlighted by lymond (bureaucracy/academy capital, wonders in only one place, lets you build only the most worthwhile buildings). But it's definitely an overrated/flawed theory not only because of map randomness but also because, much of the game, you'd like your whole empire to be doing the same thing. For example, if I have just finished researching a military tech, I don't really care about research at all: almost every city needs to be whipping units to contribute to the war effort, whether it was previously a "commerce city" or not.

Probably the most important thing that's been mentioned so far in this thread is this:

As for buildings, well, there is really only one building pretty much you want everywhere - the Granary

In fact, I'll take it a step further and say that most of the buildings that exist in the game are just terrible and should be built only in extremely rare circumstances. So your production city doesn't want a bank not because it is a production city, but because banks aren't very good. They're self defeating: building a bank increases your income, causing you to increase your research slider, diminishing the value of the bank!

Also very important is the Food = Production idea. Every city needs food, and food can be transformed into production, so there isn't usually a need for a dedicated hammer city. Food can also be turned into commerce, either by whip overflow into a wonder for failgold or by growing the city larger to work specialists and commerce tiles. Food is king and is the main determining factor of which city placements are good or bad.

Anyways, one of the most difficult things about this game is identifying what your empire needs. Knowing how to set up a commerce city will only get you so far if your game position calls for an empire-wide military buildup. So when you are building improvements, a little bit of focus on the city's strengths or specialization is a good idea, but be sure to also consider what your empire needs most, both now and in the future, so you only build improvements you will want to work and won't want to plow over later.

 

[6K Man]

Further to what rah and lymond said, I don’t think that city specialization is just about resources, it’s more about terrain. Sure, a starting location with multiple gold or gems is great, but the one resource that’s necessary for all city types (production, commerce, GP) is food. That triple gold location will never grow enough to work all 3 golds unless you have some grain resource that allows you the food surplus to work plains hill mines.

So:
Commerce cities could be anything with a food source, grass/floodplain tiles, and a river. Helps if there is some kind of luxury like gold/gems/wine/dye/spice, but that’s not essential.

Production cities have a food source and hills, preferably grassland hills. And preferably forests to chop and some grassland to irrigate. But once you get to the midgame, a grassland tile + workshop + Guilds + Caste system is basically the same as a mined hill, so you can manufacture production cities as needed.

The GP farm is ideally a location with 3+ food sources, a few hills for production when you can’t or don’t want to whip, and maybe some irrigable tiles. Personally, I like cities with food resources and lakes (3F, 2C) for my GP farm.

What you should build in each city is needs-dependent. No, you generally wouldn’t build a Bank in a production city, but if you want to build Wall Street, you need 5 banks and the production city would probably build that 5th Bank faster than your 5th-best commerce city. Bottom line is Granary goes everywhere, Forge goes almost everywhere, Lighthouse where you have seafood, and you should have a good reason to build any other improvement before starting production.

 

[lymond]

Food can also be turned into Gold, either by whip overflow into a wonder for failgold.

Fixed that for you ..commerce is a different thing

. Food is king and is the main determining factor of which city placements are good or bad.
.

yep..really no better way to say it

 

[Dellik]

FOOD is PRODUCTION

I infer that slavery is the device which turns food into production. Is slavery something so crucial that it should be kept over the whole game?

most of the buildings that exist in the game are just terrible and should be built only in extremely rare circumstances

I have been spamming many of the same building in every city that had decent production as Willem (granary, barracks, stable, forge, library, temple, market, grocer, aqueduct, colosseum, lighthouse, harbor, customs house, theatre, courthouse, jail, university, observatory, dike, factory, coal or hydro plant, hospital, airport, recycling center, public transportation). My production always seems to outrun my research so that I keep running out of buildings to make, even at 90% with cottage spam.

banks aren't very good. They're self defeating: building a bank increases your income, causing you to increase your research slider, diminishing the value of the bank!

This makes a lot of sense I will stop building them sans shrine or headquarters.

Thanks for clearing up the city specialization thing. I feel better about having mixed cities.

 

[sampsa]

I infer that slavery is the device which turns food into production. Is slavery something so crucial that it should be kept over the whole game?

Yes, simply because of the amount of you get per lost when whipping. For example, the food bar to grow from size 1 to 2 is 22 long. Having a granary effectively halves it. So growing costs 11 while whipping for one population gives 30, a pretty good deal. Only the -penalty limits the whips. Best way to fight for this is to whip for multiple population, as the penalty is always -1 . Settlers and workers are excellent whips, as slow building them hampers growth. Just remember that without a granary it's not so effective.

I have been spamming many of the same building in every city that had decent production as Willem (granary, barracks, stable, forge, library, temple, market, grocer, aqueduct, colosseum, lighthouse, harbor, customs house, theatre, courthouse, jail, university, observatory, dike, factory, coal or hydro plant, hospital, airport, recycling center, public transportation).

Like Swordnboard noted, many of those buildings are very bad and should never be built. Granary is excellent (effectively doubles food surplus!) and the ones giving , or bonus are good, but not to be spammed everywhere. Stuff like market, grocer, courthouse very situational. Then there are ones you should practically never build like colosseum or customs house.

edit: oh, so what should you be building if all buildings are bad? Build wealth or put into a wonder for fail gold.

 

[lymond]

I infer that slavery is the device which turns food into production. Is slavery something so crucial that it should be kept over the whole game?

Slavery is the single most powerful component of Civ IV. How long you use it the game is very dependent on the type of game you are playing, but typically no matter the gameI play I will be in slavery for much of it, with short-term switches to caste system during Golden Ages.

If your desire is to get better at the game, move up difficulty, and really master, you will learn how to whip and whip effectively. It's not just a matter of just whipping stuff cause you can.

I have been spamming many of the same building in every city that had decent production as Willem (granary, barracks, stable, forge, library, temple, market, grocer, aqueduct, colosseum, lighthouse, harbor, customs house, theatre, courthouse, jail, university, observatory, dike, factory, coal or hydro plant, hospital, airport, recycling center, public transportation). My production always seems to outrun my research so that I keep running out of buildings to make, even at 90% with cottage spam.

What I take from what you say here - and it is not a criticism, but very common with new players - is that you are "going through the motions". You are playing the long game but not really playing to win the game. Just building buildings is not proactive. My assumption is you are likely playing into the 20th and 21st centuries with no real goals except maybe space, or losing to an AI winning by space, culture or diplo/domination circa this timeframe. That is all fine and well, you are new, but the idea here is to set goals earlier and win the game. I'll will list a high level course of action:

1) Strong early game focused on expansion (6 or more cities by 1AD) and strong mechanics (economy building, worker management, diplomacy and maybe warfare)
2) 1AD or sooner you have an idea on how you want to win the game (exception - culture is a special type of VC and if going for it, optimally, I do the things needed from the start, unless using it as a fallback VC later)
3) Plan and Act toward that goal

To put this in perspective, since perspective is important and as a new player to the game, your's is different, I will give a hypothetical. Let's assume you are playing standard settings/Noble/Pangaea game. Based on what you've said, you are either losing or otherwise playing into the 21st century and either winning/losing. Now just to show you what could be done at Noble level with experience, my expectation would be to win the game militarily in the BCs. That is very much a possibility. (ofc, one could win anyway the want here, but just an example for perspective. Regardless, experienced players would win whatever VC here much sooner than some of the buildings you mention are even teched.

On the other hand, I would mention that anyone can play the game how they choose. Play the game casually just for fun and build whatever they desire. But most here giving you advice are from the standpoint of helping you win, win faster/better, and move up difficulty. My guess is that is what you want to do by virtue of your questions.

So, what do you do besides building all these buildings we say not to build? That really is the question now.

1) Build the best wonder in the game...an army to go kill peoples
2) Build wealth or research to push teching to that critical military tech, then go rush an army and go kill peoples.
3) Kill stuff and the peoples that own the stuff
4) How about expanding more so you can have more cities and; thus, more production to build units to go out and kill peoples.
5) If you have marble or stone (or IND trait), put hammers into related wonders for fail gold. Fail gold allows you to tech faster so you can kill more peoples with your big tech lead - and pay the people killing army
6) Build Wealth
7) Enjoy a nice Chianti

 

[odin1981]

Depending on the size of your empire I would suggest having more than just 1 GP farm. Like say you rush out a army and take out 1-2 ai's. Their former capitals should be very good for food to have a additional gp farm. The main reasoning I have behind this is that just having one farm once you hit a gp the point count resets which results in it taking a very long time for your next gp. Where if you have 2-3 gp farms set up when one pops the other 1-2 still have there points to get your next gp faster. I usually have 2 early ones for sci, but once I build the great library I set up the other one for merchants from that point on, usually my third and last one usually set up well after 1 ad is the eng farm. The reasoning behind 1 merchant and 1 engineer is you need one of each for sushi corps and mining respectively.

 

[Major Tom]

On the other hand, I would mention that anyone can play the game how they choose. Play the game casually just for fun and build whatever they desire. But most here giving you advice are from the standpoint of helping you win, win faster/better, and move up difficulty. My guess is that is what you want to do by virtue of your questions.

So, what do you do besides building all these buildings we say not to build? That really is the question now.

1) Build the best wonder in the game...an army to go kill peoples
2) Build wealth or research to push teching to that critical military tech, then go rush an army and go kill peoples.
3) Kill stuff and the peoples that own the stuff
4) How about expanding more so you can have more cities and; thus, more production to build units to go out and kill peoples.
5) If you have marble or stone (or IND trait), put hammers into related wonders for fail gold. Fail gold allows you to tech faster so you can kill more peoples with your big tech lead - and pay the people killing army
6) Build Wealth
7) Enjoy a nice Chianti

This should be printed on paper, put in a frame and then hang it on the wall.

Perhaps no Chianti. More of a beerman myself, but then again; anyone can play the game how they choose.

 

[Gumbolt]

On a good game assuming you are not blocked in by AI you could easily have 10+ cities by 1AD. With early conquest on immortal or below this figure could be much higher. All pends on how you play the game. In my early days I used to build 4-6 cities and then wonder why I struggled later in the game.

If you don't use slavery then chances of winning on higher levels is much lower. Especially if you spam every building under the sun and don't use research/wealth.