I Don't Get It!

[RRRaskolnikov]

but it's been quite a trauma

Yeah some stuff need to be read when you are an adult

 

[Dirk1302]

I love War and peace and also other Tolstoy books. C&P by Dostoyevski is also very good . Long time ago though must reread some of these.

 

[SeptimusOctopus]

Read this thread, EVERY POST, and all others before it:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322325

Hands down the number one way to improve your game.

I agree. It might be better to start with the first few ALCs though. Sis moved from prince to immortal. Of course the older ones aren't with bts, but I think the basics are still applicable e.g. what to do with workers, city specialization, etc.

Also I'm not familiar with Thomas' War. It doesn't make the AI much better does it?

 

[PreLynMax]

Read this thread, EVERY POST, and all others before it:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322325

Hands down the number one way to improve your game.

This game really didn't help me at all. But... I found the captions funny.

I agree. It might be better to start with the first few ALCs though. Sis moved from prince to immortal. Of course the older ones aren't with bts, but I think the basics are still applicable e.g. what to do with workers, city specialization, etc.

Also I'm not familiar with Thomas' War. It doesn't make the AI much better does it?

Thomas War is an altered version of Civ 4 with enhanced content.
Go here for more information.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

..TMIT?

You build warriors working your highest hammer tile until you have 5 total. Then you take a capitol.

It might be hard to get a 2nd AI on normal speed but it is probably possible. Definitely on marathon...little bit easier on epic than normal.

 

[ppciv4]

why not lower the difficulty level, if you need to win.
but in fact, get raped on a higher level also can be enjoyable.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

You build warriors working your highest hammer tile until you have 5 total. Then you take a capitol.

I'm trying to decide if I like that description. It completely avoids the lesson (and calculation) of growth before production; I like the obvious simplicity, but regret that it ignores the implications of growth.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm trying to decide if I like that description. It completely avoids the lesson (and calculation) of growth before production; I like the obvious simplicity, but regret that it ignores the implications of growth.

If you're going to use a warrior rush, this is the fastest possible way to hit with it. Things start going wrong if you put it off, especially on normal speed.

I'm not sure if I'd use quechas in the same manner on higher difficulties...probably though, it's been a while since i've run with inca but the timing might be a little different.

The growth priority in a warrior rush is decidedly horizontal .

 

[Kwibuss]

Everyone here advises you based on Civ IV BTS. I don't know what this mod changes, but it can be significant. So maybe all those advises simply won't work because of the mod.
Try to uninstall the mod and try a noble game again, maybe you'll do a lot better.

 

[Divaythsarmour]

Yeah some stuff need to be read when you are an adult

I read it twice. Once on my own in highschool and then a few years later on a backpacking trip with a friend. We took turns reading by candle light etc. That was back in the days before LED headlamps and such.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I read it twice. Once on my own in highschool and then a few years later on a backpacking trip with a friend. We took turns reading by candle light etc. That was back in the days before LED headlamps and such.

Grandpa, tells us about the olden days when Kindles were made out of paper....

 

[DaveMcW]

Good riddance.

I hope you find another game you enjoy.

 

[Divaythsarmour]

Grandpa, tells us about the olden days when Kindles were made out of paper....

Our kids get the benefits of the techs we research. The question is, what can they do with it?

Consider your Grandpa who succesfully researched paper. His or my father's generation would probably have taken nationalism as the free technology from Liberalism. No one would argue that choice, given the events of WWII.

My generation would have taken Electricity, to build our amplifiers and stereo systems, believing that rock-n-roll will rule the world. But our kids don't even like it and neither do the terrorists.

I think I might have accidentally stumbled across one of the secrets of Attacko's material.

 

[Ghpstage]

Guess i'm the only one that played the mod and opened your save then....

I don't know why you haven't researched Masonary yet!
You have both Marble AND Stone in your capitals BFC AND an Industrious leader, what a waste .
You have too few cities, 6 at 700AD is very low, especially as you haven't built a single wonder, and your workers are left improving tiles that won't be workable for another 100 or more turns or some tiles, never.....

Some thoughts on your civ,
The UB is very, very good, a granary 60% food stored instead of 50% plus an Engineer slot which I didn't notice till it was too late , the rapid growth should make expanding quickly quite easy, and the Engineer slot means getting the Pyramids or the insanely strong Sphinx wonder (reduces wonder costs by 20% ) extremely easy.
The UU a 2 move Archer is, imho a decent UU for an Archer as it can keep up with Settlers and Workers as well as intercept barbs quite well.

The Leader is another thing entirely, Industrious which works well with the UB (Sphinx power )
and Strategic, probably the most ridiculous trait ever concieved.... 50% unit upgrade costs , plus gives 200 gold at the start, which is great to support an extra early city or two. To make this even worse, the upgrade cost reduction stacks with a civic and wonder that further reduce upgrade costs, cutting the cost of upgrading a Warrior to a Rifle to 56


I played from your 4000BC save. I'll attach my save, bear in mind I have never seen this mod before and went into OOH SHINY mode as soon as I saw Marble and Stone, and its only on Noble so I didn't put much effort in. I don't think 6 cities and 7 Wonders by 150AD is bad though

 

[Syiss_]

PreLynMax, I am probably not the most qualified person to be saying this, but I feel pretty confident I know where a large part of your trouble is coming from.

First, you are using a rather extensive mod. Unless you are taking all of your advice from players who have pretty extensive knowledge of that mod, you are likely getting a lot of useless and/or detrimental information. Gameplay and strategy in this game are all very relative. Some of the best strategies in regular Civ 4 BTS may be very sub-par in an extensive mod like this because of the synergies and strategies that come with its new features. A quick glance at the mod details reveals that there are at least 5 new traits, 20+ new civs, 30+ new leaders, over a dozen new wonders, several dozen new units and buildings, 10 new civics, and a handful of new victory conditions and technologies. Civ 4 BTS alone has a huge learning curve (I dumped hundreds of hours into Civ 3 and still had trouble on Noble for my first several games, and that was AFTER reading every strategy article in the War Academy plus trolling the forums for a couple weeks). Trying to take on this mod without having an excellent understanding of the basics of Civ 4 is flat out a bad idea. You don't have anyone who can properly tutor you, you cant rely on strategy articles from the strategy forum, the war academy, or anywhere else. I won't even comment on whether or not that mod is balanced since I've never played it, but if it isn't balanced well (which I find pretty likely, simply given the scope of it), that adds an entire extra layer of difficulty to your task. Do yourself a favor and play a few games on just Civ4 BTS, shadow some games and post some of yours for others to shadow. When you've got a decent mastery of Emperor+ then you can think about the added complexity of that mod.

Second, your attitude stinks. Heres a quote from you from another thread that I ran across earlier.

Going to have to disagree with these two points.

For your first point the issue with 12 cities is not having 12 cities. Having 12 cities early is normally considered "I win" on a standard size map. If you have that many cities and are not turning a profit then the real culprit is commonly one or a combination of:
-tech choices
-tile improvements
-tiles being worked
-lack of workers
-city settlement/specialization choices
-myriad of other poor choices

As for the score. It is based on largely population, land area, and less so on wonders and techs, and perhaps a few other things I don't even realize. The idea though, is that especially if you are playing on a level that is difficult for you still the computer has the early game advantage. If you are able to be a top scorer consistantly on a difficulty level relatively early in the game then you are likely no longer challenging yourself - not that stomping the computer is not fun to do. Oh also, I'm pretty sure that power rating plays no part into your score. So you could theorhetically be in last place but have an army large enough to win in the next 50 turns awaiting your orders.

Those 12 cities lead to a crippled ecomomy. It has been proven that I usually give up because I overexpand AND even with 1.5 workers per city and having all the tiles worked, I still end up either losing a lot of money or on my way to bankruptcy, and end up losing all my units and getting DOWed on.

You are dead wrong.

Only expand when you have the income to support a new city.
As for the points, I can never, ever get an army strong enough to win within the time limit (above Noble), so score is very important. I usually have a complex point system that connects directly to the score, so that's my personal thing. Let give you an example. I was last in points, and I get DOWed on by William von Orange. Instant game over. Because I couldnt trade, I was behind in tech, and my score reflected that. Because I was far in tech, my power deterorated (Outdated units). Because my units were outdated, I got DOWed on. Had I had the technology, I would have a higher power, and my score wouldve reflected that.
I was dead last in score, which means I was DEAD LAST.

You are dead wrong.

Not only was this guy giving some pretty solid advice, but you would think that someone who is having trouble so much trouble beating Noble would be a little more open to new ideas and a little less sure about how dead wrong everyone else is about how to play this game. Not to mention you didn't refute a single thing he said in his post, you just provided an example of how you lost a game once with no reference to any of the suggestions he gave. You claim you overexpand, have 1.5 workers per city, and improve every tile in them and still lose games. But in this very game you posted here, it appears you have underexpanded, failed to improve some of the best resources available, and failed to take advantage of your leaders traits.

I don't mean to be rude, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and put this all up to a bad day at work and frustration with the game. Your problems seem to be of your own making regardless though.

 

[cabert]

Good riddance.

I hope you find another game you enjoy.

seconded
A long time ago, I have participated in succession games called trash games. People who had a hard time with the game would do their best for 1 round, and people that where a bit more comfortable would "salvage" the game in another round (generally 40 turns). That is a way to learn.

VoiceOfUnreason has proposed 2 exercices that very clearly show what an early goal can be. That is a good way to learn. I didn't see you there.

The GotM subforum provides poilers for games very good players have played. you can play the game just like they did afterwards (= not compete) to try and see what makes it so easy for them and so hard for you. That's a very good way to learn. Never saw you there.

crying and shouting isn't going to help

And since this isn't your first complain, I will assume you're not willing to learn.
This forum is filled with VERY good articles, advice, people wanting to help...
But when you're not willing to learn, you don't learn.
So good riddance.

 

[PreLynMax]

seconded
A long time ago, I have participated in succession games called trash games. People who had a hard time with the game would do their best for 1 round, and people that where a bit more comfortable would "salvage" the game in another round (generally 40 turns). That is a way to learn.

VoiceOfUnreason has proposed 2 exercices that very clearly show what an early goal can be. That is a good way to learn. I didn't see you there.

The GotM subforum provides poilers for games very good players have played. you can play the game just like they did afterwards (= not compete) to try and see what makes it so easy for them and so hard for you. That's a very good way to learn. Never saw you there.

crying and shouting isn't going to help

And since this isn't your first complain, I will assume you're not willing to learn.
This forum is filled with VERY good articles, advice, people wanting to help...
But when you're not willing to learn, you don't learn.
So good riddance.

Good riddance.

I hope you find another game you enjoy.

I read the articles and I didn't find them helpful. They just tells you a walkthrough of thier game, and it dosent tell you specific what to do and what not to do in any situation.

Second I'd sooner throw my computer tower out my second story window than participate or continue a "trash game". Due to my high frusteration of the mechanics of this game and my low patience and quick temper, it won't be long until I trash my apartment building from fusteration. No. I will NOT participate to that. I will not risk going to jail or living out in the street due to damage to my apartment because of some stupid game. And I will not listen to someone like you, whom finishes his quote with "good riddance".

Now to you, Syiss_...

PreLynMax, I am probably not the most qualified person to be saying this, but I feel pretty confident I know where a large part of your trouble is coming from.

First, you are using a rather extensive mod. Unless you are taking all of your advice from players who have pretty extensive knowledge of that mod, you are likely getting a lot of useless and/or detrimental information. Gameplay and strategy in this game are all very relative. Some of the best strategies in regular Civ 4 BTS may be very sub-par in an extensive mod like this because of the synergies and strategies that come with its new features. A quick glance at the mod details reveals that there are at least 5 new traits, 20+ new civs, 30+ new leaders, over a dozen new wonders, several dozen new units and buildings, 10 new civics, and a handful of new victory conditions and technologies. Civ 4 BTS alone has a huge learning curve (I dumped hundreds of hours into Civ 3 and still had trouble on Noble for my first several games, and that was AFTER reading every strategy article in the War Academy plus trolling the forums for a couple weeks). Trying to take on this mod without having an excellent understanding of the basics of Civ 4 is flat out a bad idea. You don't have anyone who can properly tutor you, you cant rely on strategy articles from the strategy forum, the war academy, or anywhere else. I won't even comment on whether or not that mod is balanced since I've never played it, but if it isn't balanced well (which I find pretty likely, simply given the scope of it), that adds an entire extra layer of difficulty to your task. Do yourself a favor and play a few games on just Civ4 BTS, shadow some games and post some of yours for others to shadow. When you've got a decent mastery of Emperor+ then you can think about the added complexity of that mod.

Second, your attitude stinks. Heres a quote from you from another thread that I ran across earlier.



Not only was this guy giving some pretty solid advice, but you would think that someone who is having trouble so much trouble beating Noble would be a little more open to new ideas and a little less sure about how dead wrong everyone else is about how to play this game. Not to mention you didn't refute a single thing he said in his post, you just provided an example of how you lost a game once with no reference to any of the suggestions he gave. You claim you overexpand, have 1.5 workers per city, and improve every tile in them and still lose games. But in this very game you posted here, it appears you have underexpanded, failed to improve some of the best resources available, and failed to take advantage of your leaders traits.

I don't mean to be rude, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and put this all up to a bad day at work and frustration with the game. Your problems seem to be of your own making regardless though.

Oh yes, my attitude stinks. And yes, I had every tile worked in that game, had you not noticed, or had you not notice the stats, I did have well over 2 workers/city.
And yes, I abandoned that game. I'm about to post my 67th straight noble loss later on.

 

[Stewie0416]

You know what I do to jump a level? Go play a Pangaea game on standard w/ only 4 other civs. Take out 2 civ spaces. It gives you a large space to expand and helps you wean into a new difficulty. Once you become more confortable then add 1 civ in. Then add another civ in once you're ready.

Also, when you start off use a really good/overpowered leader, Darius is good, but i dont have that mod so i guess i can't really tell you what leader to use.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You know what I do to jump a level? Go play a Pangaea game on standard w/ only 4 other civs. Take out 2 civ spaces. It gives you a large space to expand and helps you wean into a new difficulty. Once you become more confortable then add 1 civ in. Then add another civ in once you're ready.

Also, when you start off use a really good/overpowered leader, Darius is good, but i dont have that mod so i guess i can't really tell you what leader to use.

This is harder on high difficulties, not easier. AI pays very little maintenance and gets a huge boost. Put those together and watch what happens when 1-2 AIs wind up with 30%+ of the world's land/pop peacefully.

If you're really good, you can win, but um...not exactly what one would want if they're trying to learn a new level .

 

[FlyinJohnnyL]

This game really didn't help me at all. But... I found the captions funny.

Why exactly is it that this game didn't help you at all? There really isn't much more anyone can do, there are literally pages of discussion on why or why not to do stuff in key situations. Other than literally playing the game for you there isn't much more that can be done. When there is a 2 page discussion on the merits of each key decision point of the game...I just don't see how that doesn't help you, especially at noble.

Have you tried watching TMIT's walkthroughs on youtube? You literally get to see whole games played.

Beyond that, finding another game is probably your best bet at this point.