I don't like the way City States work in Civ VI

[pietro1990]

Just to clarify , you can Declare Protectorate War. It's in the Renaissance Era in the civic tree under Diplomatic Service.

but if a civ declares war in the medievel era at youre city state and you don't have this civic then you have no option.. its comes to late.

 

[dexters]

but if a civ declares war in the medievel era at youre city state and you don't have this civic then you have no option.. its comes to late.

Correct, the diplomatic game appears to evolve through the ages, which makes sense.
Whether we feel some of the options come too late is open for debate.

 

[pietro1990]

Correct, the diplomatic game appears to evolve through the ages, which makes sense.
Whether we feel some of the options come too late is open for debate.

But the warmonger penalty for declaring war is way to high at medievel era and classical era. Wich causes you not to react to a civilization who declares war at youre city state or you get a major penalties with other civs .

So if a civ captures a city states at medievel era because you couldn't stop them you don't have a causic belli to liberate that city state because the protective war isn't right on time.

 

[wilcoxchar]

I like the way city states work, but I agree with your criticism. I feel like there should be an early civic where you can pledge to protect a city state, which would force any AIs who declare war on that city state to also declare war on you. A lot of people have complained about not being able to protect their city states without incurring a big diplo penalty, which is an issue in the game.

Why not tie being able to protect city states to feudalism?

 

[jlc22]

You get a major positive warmonger adjustment for liberating a city state and returning it to the former owner. Not sure if it's more or less than the penalty for declaring a surprise war or CB war or if it scales with time.

I did liberate Carthage from the US but I didn't check the modifiers to see how much of a benefit I got from reinstating the CS. I can liberate an Indian city just to check how much of a plus you get when I get a chance to get back in game.

 

[pietro1990]

You get a major positive warmonger adjustment for liberating a city state and returning it to the former owner. Not sure if it's more or less than the penalty for declaring a surprise war or CB war or if it scales with time.

I did liberate Carthage from the US but I didn't check the modifiers to see how much of a benefit I got from reinstating the CS. I can liberate an Indian city just to check how much of a plus you get when I get a chance to get back in game.

Its still isn't enough people will stil be unfriendly with you

 

[dexters]

But the warmonger penalty for declaring war is way to high at medievel era and classical era. Wich causes you not to react to a civilization who declares war at youre city state or you get a major penalties with other civs .

So if a civ captures a city states at medievel era because you couldn't stop them you don't have a causic belli to liberate that city state because the protective war isn't right on time.

I think the way it's set up now, it's 2 track system. go to war , and incur high penalties or don't. The middling pretend your peaceful while taking nibbles of territory is almost impossible to do now
I had Gandhi on my map and his denounced me for declaring war on a universally disliked leader.

 

[pietro1990]

I think the way it's set up now, it's 2 track system. go to war , and incur high penalties or don't. The middling pretend your peaceful while taking nibbles of territory is almost impossible to do now
I had Gandhi on my map and his denounced me for declaring war on a universally disliked leader.

And you thinx thats a good system? i don't thinx so.

You should have posibilities to go to war.

I thinx the biggest problem with current mechanic is that causic belli come to late.


Protective war for city states should be available at classical age at Political Philosophy this is the time where greece actually started become political and started to conduct diplomacy makes sence right?

Declare Holy War should be in the medievel war at Reformed Church the time religious strugle was at his highest.

That would fix the problem a lot.

 

[darko82]

We can spam some units around a city state and block the AI if a particular city state is important to us. No passage. Or bulid cities nearby the city state to block the AI etc. This is my first game, so I'm still learning.

But I may use a mod in the future and move it to the medieval era if necessary. Need to play more to see if it's too late.

 

[pietro1990]

We can spam some units around a city state and block the AI if a particular city state is important to us. No passage. Or bulid cities nearby the city state to block the AI etc. This is my first game, so I'm still learning.

But I may use a mod in the future and move it to the medieval era if necessary. Need to play more to see if it's too late.

Could you share this mod? Olso i thinx its better if you move it to Political Philosophy this makes more sence.

 

[darko82]

Could you share this mod? Olso i thinx its better if you move it to Political Philosophy this makes more sence.

When it exists, I will share it with you I believe it's pretty easy to mod - editing xml file/files in notepad?

 

[Dreadicon]

Just wanted to drop in here and point out a no-win situation I just encountered that CBs can't solve. I allied with Scythia and had been friends with her since turn 10. It's now the industrial age, and she DOWs one of my City States. And now I'm SOL. I either piss off my longest standing ally and make an eternal enemy out of her, AND the rest of the world because I'm breaking an alliance (so CB has no effect). Or she just gets to gobble up my City States whenever she feels like it. It's utterly moronic. So far the only major complaint I have with the game, but still....it's pretty darn frustrating that such an important feature was left out. Suzerain states should automatically be considered protected; they go to war along side you, why shouldn't you go to war along side them automatically? Players have a choice of who they send their emissaries to....so yeah. Very frustrating.

 

[Nauer]

We can spam some units around a city state and block the AI if a particular city state is important to us. No passage.

Japan declared on a CS that I was the suzerian of pretty early in the game - archers and warriors mostly on both sides. The CS had 4 warriors and 2 archers, so I thought I'd try out the new levy military feature. I laughed when I realized that it turns them into your civ's units and that you don't actually step into the control as the CS - i.e., I couldn't attack Japan's army that was closing in on the city. I had enough units that were close enough to the city to surround it though, so I did that and just left everyone fortified. I think Japan shuffled around for about 10-15 turns before declaring peace. Not exactly effective, and I thought it was pretty silly. I was hoping to just use the CS's military more effectively than the AI could and repel the invasion. Oh well....definitely agree that there needs to be some way of letting the other leader know that you're not happy/demand that they stop.

 

[idjit]

In my opinion, it just feels like city states are there for the AI to conquer with impunity with little to no repercussion. Like in 5, everyone would hate Genghis because of his sack-happy UA. City states seem to not have enough diplomatic weight in the overall game. And why do we lose our envoys when they are sacked? In civ 5 your spies didn't hang around to die in captured cities, why would your envoys do the same here?

 

[lindsay40k]

lolwhut. So if your seven Envoys ally gets sacked, and you liberate them, you're back to square one.

This game is still in beta.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

lolwhut. So if your seven Envoys ally gets sacked, and you liberate them, you're back to square one.

This game is still in beta.

If you liberate them you get some ?3? automatic envoys, everyone else is at square 0

 

[zattin]

It does state in the Civilopedia that one of the possible "Let's Discuss" options is "Stop attacking my CS." However I never got that to trigger in my game, even when my allies were attacking CS I had control of so I think it may be glitched.

My biggest gripe is that there is no way to declare war on a CS with Casus Belli, like it's not even an option. In my current game Preslav is blocking my access to the only coal on the continent and they aren't advanced enough to mine it, so even though I am Suzerain I don't have access to it. I want to take them over but I don't have the option without incurring egregious warmonger penalties.

 

[LDiCesare]

I think it's lame you can't have the same diplomacy with city states as you can with other civs.
In particular you can't denounce (soattacking CS means Tomyris will hate you no matter what), you can't have rights of passage, so you can't attack enemy units in bordering CS territory.

 

[dwarfling]

I think the City States start far too defenseless. I'm thinking, either having them start with Ancient Walls so that the AI's starting warriors can't just blitz thru, or giving them an Archer that stays put in the city center.

 

[steveg700]

I think the City States start far too defenseless. I'm thinking, either having them start with Ancient Walls so that the AI's starting warriors can't just blitz thru, or giving them an Archer that stays put in the city center.

I think they remain pretty defenseless as well. Ancient and classical units right up until the end game for the most part. Maybe it's like Civ V that they don't try to upgrade until a civ wages war on them? Well, unfortunately for them, the barbs *do* improve.

I think city-states are mostly so good that I'm not sure they're worth attacking. Heck, some of those suzerain bonuses are better than some civ bennies.

Anyone else miss the demand tribute option? Will be interesting to see if the Monguls do anything interesting to CS's when they come out inevitably as DLC.

Diplomatically, there does need to be a means for a specific civ to align with specific city-states, or at least a category of CS's. Right now, vying for any suzerainty is a sure way to annoy everyone who's met that CS.