I hate god

[GenMarshall]

Well, I want to disregard pascal's wager and fully and strongly believe in God. And that is what I am going to do, I am going to fully believe in God and toss away pascal's wager.

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

Hey Civ, don't let others solely influence your beliefs and decisions... always weigh everything with what you think, use logic, reason, heck even your feelings because we are humans afterall, and in the end, make sure you're the one who has the last word on who you are!

 

[Stylesjl]

Pascals Wager is flawed Civgeneral, very flawed. Just remember, Pascals Wager can mean anything, Multiple gods, Atheism/Agnosticism being preferable to worship, or simply the incorrect mode of worship or chosen god

If you use Pascals Wager to hold on to your beleif during the low times you are likely to get burned pretty bad.

And agnosticism isn't depressing. I'm one and i've never been happier.

I just need a daily dose of prozac and i'm on my way! Just kidding

Edit: Well it seem your tossing Pascal's Wager out the window now. That's great

 

[BasketCase]

No you didn't, you planned for it to work perfectly. Its failure was a result of your fallibility. Are implying that God is fallible?

Maybe He is.

Who said God is infallible? Humans did.


Addenum: Right now, with all the stuff going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, the politically correct line is "don't mess with other people". So, suppose God created us and then just got the hell out of our way....?

 

[BasketCase]

Stop the thread!! HOLD IT. STOP EVERYTHING.

I just found The Answer.

From the Exit Mundi web site (this is the "Farewell" entry up top--the frames don't translate into links in here):

Now here’s something different: what if we all killed ourselves? We agree: after all we’ve been through, it would be a ridiculous way to go. But oddly, suicide could also be the inevitable, most logical outcome of evolution...

<snip>

Ok, that sounds pretty vague -- but hey, it&#8217;s no reason to kill yourself! Well: there is this one crucial detail. Once we&#8217;re immortal, we&#8217;ll be booooooored!



To us simple, mortal humans this may be a bit hard to grasp. But once we&#8217;ve reached Perfection and Singularity and Oneness and all that blah blah, we will have no goal in life. Yes, we will go out and discover the Universe. But after a while, we will have seen it all. With our mortal bodies gone, we will have all the time of the Universe. We will know every corner of the Universe and say: so what? Why search any further? To an intelligent cloud of smoke particles, searching every corner of the Universe will make as much sense as examining every blade of grass on Earth makes to us.

So there you have it. You&#8217;ve become a God-like purple space cloud, but now you find that it is soooooo depressing.

And in fact, it&#8217;s even worse than that. Once we will become machines, our processing speed will increase hugely. Simply put, we will think bloody fast. Within a split second, we will realize that our existence, literally, has become useless. A split second later, we will realize it&#8217;s best if we didn&#8217;t exist.

If we mere mortals can come up with ideas like this, then God almost certainly did. So, suppose he foresaw that Perfection was pointless? (No, I don't mean you, Perfection--DAMMIT, why did you have to choose that name??? )

Maybe God created us as the flawed beings we are for precisely that reason?

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Who said God is infallible? Humans did.

If god can't/won't/refuses to/died a long time ago/never existed/etc. and doesn't speak for himself then human speculation is the best tool available to try to answer the question.

Stop the thread!! HOLD IT. STOP EVERYTHING.

I just found The Answer.

Larry Niven wrote a short story called The Subject is Closed where a priest sits in a bar with an alien from an old and wise race and asks him about god and life after death. The alien tells him "the subject is closed", because every time research is done seeking an answer and texts on the subject are studied long enough, the researcher ends up losing interest in this world and eventually committing suicide. The alien advises the priest not to pursue the topic any further, lest he be drawn by the siren's call to see what happens after death.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If we mere mortals can come up with ideas like this, then God almost certainly did. So, suppose he foresaw that Perfection was pointless? (No, I don't mean you, Perfection--DAMMIT, why did you have to choose that name??? )

Maybe God created us as the flawed beings we are for precisely that reason?

Good find

If that's the case, I hope he's decent enough for the afterlife to stop at some point. He wouldn't want us to get bored now would he? Of course, then the question arises, what happenes after you exit the afterlife with the soul?

It can't be reincarnation because that is mathmatical and logistical nightmare

 

[CurtSibling]

Well, I want to disregard pascal's wager and fully and strongly believe in God. And that is what I am going to do, I am going to fully believe in God and toss away pascal's wager.

You sound as if you are trying to convince yourself.

Although I have always had my doubts about how serious your faith is.

Your belief seems to waver quite a lot.

...

 

[Quiet Sound]

*Sigh* I guess some people dont understand what it is like going through a crisis in faith .

Try believing, genuinely, truly believing that you are going to Hell because you can no longer accept the precepts of your religion. Try telling your church mates and your pastor about it, subsequently being told "You realize you're going to Hell?" and truthfully answer affirmatively. Or just take my word for it when I say it isn't a pleasant experience. Whichever you'd prefer.

As for Pascal's Wager, maybe you've heard this alternative:
"It is better to live your life as if there are no Gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no God, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent God, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him."

And if there is a god/goddess/gender-neutral deity/multiple deities/non-anthropomorphic "force" which is not benevolent, then the way in which you live your life doesn't mean much except to the people whom you affect.

 

[GenMarshall]

You sound as if you are trying to convince yourself.

Only to you. I have already convinced myself that there is a God from my perspective.

Although I have always had my doubts about how serious your faith is.[/quote]
Doubt all you want, but I am serious in my faith and I am committed in my faith to be in full communion in the Catholic Church. Do I give a damn of your doubts or your atheistic crusade? No. So I am not going to let you tell me otherwise, I am my own person and I can think for myself.

Your belief seems to waver quite a lot.

Come back and tell me that when you have severe depression and been diagnosed with bi-polar . Then well talk. My beliefs have hardly waver to anything despite what you see and your doubts.

 

[angeleyes]

[....]It can't be reincarnation because that is mathematical and logistical nightmare

that's a good one!

 

[Ayatollah So]

Anybody interested in the most thorough and up to date treatment of the problem of evil should read The Problem of Evil by Peter van Inwagen.

I recommend if you do that, you only read up to the point where he tries to justify principle Beta. Figure out what's wrong with the argument, and move on.

As to the OP, I'd have to say that if there is a God, It has an inordinate fondness for beetles (but then so do I), a wicked sense of humor, and is a bit of a drama queen. All in all: could be worse.

 

[Ayatollah So]

If my parents created me, and I one day paint a picture, is that picture the creation of my parents? no.

In an important way, yes. They raised you to achieve your hopes and dreams, as a crucial part of their parenting. This painting is part of their success in that endeavor, so they bear a lot of responsibility. They can justly be proud of it. Not to the same degree as you, of course, but still.

Responsibility multiplies. It doesn't divide.

 

[Quiet Sound]

Come back and tell me that when you have severe depression and been diagnosed with bi-polar . Then well talk.

I'm just curious as to what the connection is between this and the statement you were replying to. Speaking as a person that spent the better part of a year watching someone die in effect because of depression and bi-polar disorder.

 

[SG-17]

"When you do things right, people won't know you have done anything at all."
That is what God does. There is evil in the world and is partly humans fault and partly God's fault. but the evil is always destroyed. Though some that makes more evil, which is good, because without evil there would be no good.
Understand me?

 

[Red Door]

"When you do things right, people won't know you have done anything at all."
That is what God does. There is evil in the world and is partly humans fault and partly God's fault. but the evil is always destroyed. Though some that makes more evil, which is good, because without evil there would be no good.
Understand me?

How is it God's fault at all? Would you rather be a mindless robot? God gave you the gift of free will, yet you blame him for causing evil.

 

[SG-17]

i dont blame him, he needed to create evil, because as i stated without evil, there would be no good.

 

[Red Door]

i dont blame him, he needed to create evil, because as i stated without evil, there would be no good.

Not true. Because all was good before the creation of sin by Adam and Eve.

 

[SG-17]

what about Lucifer(i think thats right)?
and who said God is/was good? he is probably indifferent.

 

[Red Door]

what about Lucifer(i think thats right)?
and who said God is/was good? he is probably indifferent.

Lucifer's story is not very reliable, at best. He is most likely a fallen archangel who wanted to cause trouble. But, there is not many reliable stories on him.

God is good, as said by Genesis, Jesus Christ, and on.