I love Privateers!

[weregamer]

Wow, I had generally discounted this unit because it loses so easily to Frigates. But in a recent game (obviously not landlocked) where I managed to have golden age of sail ships earlier than my neighbors, I churned out a few of these to increase my lead. Then a few more. Eventually the victims started killing them with massed Caravels, so I started stacking them, and attacking with some from each stack without giving up the commerce raiding or the mutual protection of ending the turns stacked.

When I did finally get Combustion (and lots of money from all that commerce raiding and being Financial), I realized I'd just invented a new-to-me killer tactic. I now had a whole bunch of Destroyers with useful combat promotions *plus* the free sight range promotion. An extra square on spotting subs is pretty nifty, but having to waste a promotion on Flanking to get it isn't so hot. But upgrading from the Privateer I got to keep the free promotion.


Now, I haven't had such a runaway success in later games. Usually there will be Frigates too soon, and you won't be able to really cripple the rivals you most want to. But even so, building a stack of Privateers who dance away from Frigates and attack other things opportunistically, I've gotten a handful of great Destroyers for later and I can just disband the extras.

 

[Antilogic]

I am also a convert to the privateer--the Age of Sail is far more interesting with the additional ships. However, I was quite aggravated when my technologically advanced allies started sinking my privateers as they were en route to our mutually disliked "enemies". It was really annoying when my allies' frigates started hunting my ships down in foreign waters (belonging to neither of us).

 

[KMadCandy]

i'm having a blast with them! i tend to be quite peaceful, but they let me earn exp without being in an actual war. yay!

 

[illram]

They also prohibit cities from working their blockaded water tiles. Add in that they can pillage, and you've got an excellent reason to try and get chemistry before the AI, which is very doable. It also makes the AI concentrate on building massive amounts of ships.

 

[r_rolo1]

^^That normally gives us a ridiculous amount of XPs.... In my last game ( peaceful until the SS arrival to AC ) I earned 5 GG with D. João II just by using them, and finished with some really nice Drill IV Flanking II destroyers when the privateer age ended.

 

[KMadCandy]

you got it, r_rolo1 *giggle*. this game, i'm Joao, and haven't had any wars. but i got a free military instructor in my capital from a random event, and i'm about to discover chemistry and they aren't heading that way. ooooooooh it's gonna be hella fun!

 

[Bran]

I like them very much for the reasons allready stated (GG points without war and experienced naval units), but I find that they are sometimes very strange to handle. In my latest game nearly half my build privateers never even saw the water: Some of my allies had units moving through my territory and managed to have those units end their turn in my cities just finishing a privateer. The result was "XY has finished a privateer", but no privateer was build ... hammers wasted, bahh!

Another vital lesson learned: Take extra care when bringing your experienced privateers home (for upgrading to destroyers). Imagine my agony, when my mighty fleet stood by and watched how my buddy's newest naval toys slaughtered my 20+ XP privateers one turn before they where upgraded to destroyers ...

 

[Sisiutil]

I'd like to see Privateers revised a little in a BtS patch.

Right now you have to get to Chemistry long, long before the AI to get any use out of them; remember that researching the tech is only half the battle, you then need to build the ships and sail them into position, by which time it's very easy for the AI to catch up and build Frigates.

I suppose they could be enabled by Gunpowder (with their counter, Frigates, enabled still by Chemistry). Then there'd be more of a window for getting use out of them. I don't think this would unbalance the game; after all, Crossbowmen, Knights, and Pikemen (which counter one another in specific combinations) are likewise enabled by different technologies.

Another possibility would be to give them 1 more move than Frigates to balance that out a little more. I find I have somewhat better success with my Privateers if I win the circumnavigation race.

Having friends sink Privateers is also frustrating. There must be a way to work it so that your allies (say, AI civs who are Friendly) know which ships are yours and leave them alone. The reverse should also be true. And there should, therefore, be diplomatic consequences if your Privateer is used against a Friendly civ.

Also, I've never seen an AI Privateer. Why is that?

 

[r_rolo1]

I'd like to see Privateers revised a little in a BtS patch.

Right now you have to get to Chemistry long, long before the AI to get any use out of them; remember that researching the tech is only half the battle, you then need to build the ships and sail them into position, by which time it's very easy for the AI to catch up and build Frigates.

I suppose they could be enabled by Gunpowder (with their counter, Frigates, enabled still by Chemistry). Then there'd be more of a window for getting use out of them. I don't think this would unbalance the game; after all, Crossbowmen, Knights, and Pikemen (which counter one another in specific combinations) are likewise enabled by different technologies.

That would make sense... Having the counter of a unit enabled by the same tech than the the units is not good. Gunpowder ( or some intermediate tech between gunpowder and Chemistry ) would be good ( and maybe they could add a crude gunpowder siege weapon as well.... )

Having friends sink Privateers is also frustrating. There must be a way to work it so that your allies (say, AI civs who are Friendly) know which ships are yours and leave them alone. The reverse should also be true. And there should, therefore, be diplomatic consequences if your Privateer is used against a Friendly civ.

In this I have to disagree with you. In game, privateers are outlaw units and technically they don't belong to anybody ( technically you hired some ....less thatn respectable citizens for making less than respectable tasks ( very much like spies ) ). What needs to be revised is the not-finely-tuned feature that allows you to destroy a enemy ship in a neutral harbor without fight ( a thing that firaxis should had done ages ago.... )

Also, I've never seen an AI Privateer. Why is that?

I think that happens because of privateers and frigates are enabled by the same techs. AI simply chooses the stronger unit.... and I doubt that, even with privateers, that they would use them effectively ( needs test )

 

[InvisibleStalke]

I think they would be overpowered if the counter didn't arrive at the same time - they are fine the way they are in my opinion. Its a reward if you are first to Chemistry and Astronomy but not much use if you aren't.

It makes naval war interesting.

I would like to see a couple of additions:

- Barbarian privateers should make an appearance. These would be pirates and quite historical.

- The AIs should build privateers too. Maybe they are programmed to do so if they are first to chemistry - but since I usually am I haven't seen them. If so thats probably OK as long as the AI would use them.

 

[GinandTonic]

I saw my first AI privateer today. It randomly attacked a destroyer who was scouting for a massive carrier intercontential invasion battle group, causing a brief panic on my part. "WTF is attcking me the moment I've stripped my defences to fill the transports".

 

[illram]

^^That normally gives us a ridiculous amount of XPs.... In my last game ( peaceful until the SS arrival to AC ) I earned 5 GG with D. João II just by using them, and finished with some really nice Drill IV Flanking II destroyers when the privateer age ended.

Very true. I think this came up during our LHC game, and the Jao game was one of the ones were I really played around with them and saw their power. I think its fairly easy on Monarch to get a good 20-30 turn period of time where the best the AI can do is spam you with caravels. Since big cities give you around 5-8 GPT, even just a few cities can be a nice stack of change every turn. Even in games where that isn't possible, there is always that one civ that is waaay behind and you can milk them for a while.

And in general once you see some frigates and they start dying, just run away. If you have the circumnavigation bonus that becomes even easier.

 

[pi-r8]

I think Privateers should be like submarines, where they are invisibile to everything except frigates. IRL, privateers and pirates survived by being able to avoid warships. It really bugs me when my privateers get sunk by a ship-of-the-line, because those would never have been able to catch a privateer/pirate.

 

[mrwhite89]

I think Privateers are great the way they are. If I want to keep them around so I can upgrade them to Destroyers, I simply have them do hit-and-run attacks against my enemies/allies - destroying the lone Caravel and pillaging all sea resources. I try to always keep them in and out of a Civ's culture zone - in to attack/pillage - and out to heal or flee if necessary.

Any time I use them to blockade a Civ's trade zone, they're usually living on borrowed time....

 

[popejubal]

I love Privateers!

That's because they're AWESOME!

I like Privateers just the way they are. If you make an effort to get both Astronomy and Chemistry before the AI, then you'll have Privateers for at least some time before the AI has Frigates. If you don't, then you won't have that.

If it were just blockading that Privateers could do, then I'd agree that their time on this earth is too narrow, but you can also use them to harass, pillage and attack your allies without political fallout. That's worth an enormous amount and I'd say it's not such a bad thing that Privateers have a limited lifespan.

I honestly find that I spend hardly any time blockading since I spend so very much time slaughtering Caravels, Galleys and Galleons. I will often get a Great General before Privateers. I will always get one Great General from privateers and I will usually get a second. I my latest game, I discovered the other continent and circumnavigated the globe. I grabbed Astronomy from Liberalism and then quickly researched Chemistry with the extra trade (Gunpowder had come early this game). After I whipped and bought a small fleet of Privateers, I was able to prevent the two continents from successfully sending Caravels to meet each other by carefully patroling the seas and killing any Caravels that I found. The two other civs on my continent never met the other land's civs before I had finished destroying them (Monarch, Medium and Small, 2 continents with islands to the north of each continent).

 

[KMadCandy]

Having friends sink Privateers is also frustrating. There must be a way to work it so that your allies (say, AI civs who are Friendly) know which ships are yours and leave them alone. The reverse should also be true. And there should, therefore, be diplomatic consequences if your Privateer is used against a Friendly civ.

no way dude! i'm working on my second game in a row where it's quite possible my only GGs will come from privateers. if i can't beat up my friends, who can i beat up on? that sounds really wrong tho ... don't tell my friends *giggle*.

 

[Antilogic]

I saw my first AI privateer today. It randomly attacked a destroyer who was scouting for a massive carrier intercontential invasion battle group, causing a brief panic on my part. "WTF is attcking me the moment I've stripped my defences to fill the transports".

You lost a destroyer against a privateer? Bad luck on your part.