I Misjudged Sweden's Potential in BNW

[isau]

I used to think Sweden was a pretty weak civ. "Who would want to trade a whole Great Person for just 90 influence?" I said.

Well, I just did a Domination Victory with the Swedes and now I have to eat my words. Emperor difficulty, small Continents with 8 civs. Started out on a continent with Maria T and the Ottomans. Around 900 AD just as I was taking the Ottoman capital out, the Incas sailed into view with a score about 400 points ahead of me and a HUGE landmass. Just as that happens, Pachacuti founds the World Congress and I get introduced to Spain, Germany, Brazil, and Persia. the latter three of whom have respectable scores (I guess Isabella was up to her usual witchery and the other civs punished her for it).

I won't go into the fine details of how I had to halt my war with the Ottomans and befriend everyone on the new continent to avoid the war monger penalty, or how those friendships helped me churn out great artists, writers, and musicians. What I will mention though is that since I didn't care about Culture victory very much, all those extra GP got shipped out to various city states.

By the end of the game I hadn't spend a single dime on City States, but I had all 12 of them on my side. I actually had Diplo Victory turned off or I'd have won that many turns before the eventual and gradual fall of the other continent. In the end it came down to me and Persia--my "ally" who supported me as I double crossed each one of my "friends." At one point I got a few extra Great Prophets and a Great Admiral and those eventually got fed to my City State allies as well.

I don't know if it would work on Immortal or Diety, but I am disappointed I didn't see the potential Sweden has in BNW, now that there are so many additional types of Great People.


EDIT: I should mention I also generated a lot of Great Scientists during that game. Those I kept to myself.

 

[Matoro]

Swedes are awesome, I especially love Caroleans for domination. Free March promotions for everyone!

 

[cpm4001]

Too many people deride Sweden as a pointless or boring Civ...they're most assuredly not! 'Cause who wouldn't want to be able to send a bunch of highly-promoted Caroleans off on a rampage, generating Great Generals to feed to City-States to ally 'em up?

 

[Jampine]

Indeed, Sweden is truly an awesome civ! I was going for a culture victory, and manage to snag all the goodies needed, like plenty of river cities and the leaning tower In the end, it boosted my empire wide GP rate by about 95%, not including factors like the national wonder and gardens. So, like you, I was churning out GP's at an untouchable rate. I didn't really use Caroleans, as I was being friendly, an I only captured the Songhai capital after I noticed everyone on my continent was DoW'ing them, and picking of their few cities. So the war boosted my friendship, and nabbed me some land I'd been eyeing up, along with a few wonders and art!

Weirdest thing was, although some people disliked me from the start, I managed to remain friends with everyone by the end of the game, with my trading and influence overriding any disputes between the AI.

Another thing I wonder is if the AI takes Sweden's UA into account, so they're more likely to be friendly towards you? (Might just have been luck, as AI has NO IDEA how to use Hollands UA )

 

[Brichals]

With all the new GPs and their costs not stacking for the tourism producing branches, I imagine sweden are now super strong. I played them once before in G+K and was surprised how good gifting GP is.

 

[Tabarnak]

On the opposite when playing peaceful games you can neat 40 or even 50% extra gpp if you manage to get several DoFs which is quite good.

 

[Matthew.]

People have a tendency to dismiss Civs if they have a bonus which is potentially a punishment, even if the bonus outweighs any negative effects. People see the "also give your competition 10% GP generation" and the "give away one of your GP's for 90 rep (which recedes over time)" and freak out.

I like Sweden. I always use spies on city-states (don't care if others steal from me and if I'm so far behind that I am able to steal at a reasonable rate, something is very wrong on my end). They maintain the reputation, so I only need to figure out how to get the up front cost of an alliance. With Sweden, that cost is only a single GP. Haven't given them a full go with BNW, but they've only gotten better. You still can donate the extra GG's, but also sparing a writer, artist, or musician is very easy, especially if you are going for something other than culture victory.

 

[DemonMaster]

When I played Sweden in BNW I went Tradition, Patronage, Aesthetics (not finished), Freedom. I was going for a diplo-win.

I used Treaty Organization on little over half of my trade fleet, I got so much money anyway so, not to use every single trade unit to trade with the überbest targetcity isn't that important. All those Great Persons that I didn't needed (of all kinds), was used to boost those CSs that my trade fleet hadn't already boosted up. I have won diplo-win before, but playing Sweden and do it felt like I was cheating.

 

[Brevity]

With all the new GPs and their costs not stacking for the tourism producing branches, I imagine sweden are now super strong. I played them once before in G+K and was surprised how good gifting GP is.

Indeed they are, although their new start bias (Tundra) keeps them somewhat in check. Their unique lancer isn't that much to write home about either. Still, they have a very good UA, and a pretty solid 2nd UU... even if it is a melee unit.

Also, like you point out the 90 influence from gifting GP works so much better in practice than it would first seem on paper. The amount of "precise force" the ability offers is so versatile. When playing domination it's quite surprising just how many "non-essential" great people one eventually generates and not just generals, even scientists. (You don't really need to rush techs after radar) Extra GPs helps make City State Allies, which keeps your empire smiling, which let's your war machine keep rolling.

 

[Liegence]

Yep, Sweden is awesome

 

[Arachnofiend]

Indeed they are, although their new start bias (Tundra) keeps them somewhat in check. Their unique lancer isn't that much to write home about either. Still, they have a very good UA, and a pretty solid 2nd UU... even if it is a melee unit.

Pretty solid is a gross understatement. March is what you're going for with melee units anyways; it lets your Caroleans soak up a ridiculous amount of damage. It's one of the few melee units that gets a bonus that helps it do what melee units are for, the other two being the Minuteman and Janissary. Feel free to salivate when you remember that CS gifted Minutemen and Janissaries can be upgraded into Caroleans and keep their bonuses.

There are only a few UU's I'd consider better than the Carolean, and many of them (Camel Archer, Keshik, Impi) don't get to keep the things that make them good. A Carolean is forever.

 

[killmeplease]

hmm interesting
maybe my next game will be as Sweden
i want to try Sweden with Honor, gift GG from warrior code to some CS for early culture/luxes

 

[Jon the Bastard]

I haven't played them since the release of BNW; but, I'm certainly going to give them a try after reading this thread.

If nothing else, I think they have some of the best leader music in the game.