I miss you, Soren... so much

[Aristos]

But yes, the console generation and their needs affect PC gaming. It's not a new development, though.

I know it's not new, I just had hopes that it would not affect the civ series, but it did... Rev was the warning.

There is some hope though... Paradox does not seem ready to surrender their vision... they have problems with their initial releases, yes, but most of those problems can be tracked down to keeping their games complex and deep, which is core to their vision (as it was core to Sid's vision before). There is no need to make a hardcore game shallow when trying to "streamline" the UI, and Paradox has proven that in their last releases.

Soren had that vision. The new guy, well, he doesn't. Plain and simple. Or maybe he was pressed by the marketing "gurus", we will probably never know...

 

[seasnake]

Facts are fact, Civ V looks, sounds and plays out a LOT like Civ Revolution. To me anyway... It has nothing to do with motion sensing sticks, controllers or anything else that makes a console a console. The game is not what the last one was like, it's not like the rest either, it's a streamlined, mainstreamed version designed to attract a new audience.

Some of you like it, great, but some of us don't. Why is that such a big issue?

That's not the issue. It's not that you aren't allowed to not like it. It's that there is a vocal group that assumes that ANYONE who likes it must be come kind if impure PC gamer, that fans of Civ V are not "true" PC strategy fans. It's like a wine connoisseur who says that because you like one vintage he doesn't find appealing that you have no taste in wines and must enjoy drinking garbage out of a box. That's the attitude I'm mocking.

 

[squadbroken]

There is some hope though... Paradox does not seem ready to surrender their vision... they have problems with their initial releases, yes, but most of those problems can be tracked down to keeping their games complex and deep, which is core to their vision (as it was core to Sid's vision before). There is no need to make a hardcore game shallow when trying to "streamline" the UI, and Paradox has proven that in their last releases.

lawl

I bought Victoria 2 and in two days I had Ethiopia as a great power despite never having played the series before.

Paradox games might be "deep" but they're hardly challenging.

 

[Davor]

You miss Soren? Yes that is true, I am surprised I say the same thing. But the person who I really miss is Brian Renyolds. He made Civ II. He made Alpha Centauri.

He is the one who is truely missed.

What I don't understand, is why does Sid take all the credit, when he does so little? It was all Renyolds and Soren who did almost all the work in Civ II A/C and Civ IV.

 

[InterAl]

lawl

I bought Victoria 2 and in two days I had Ethiopia as a great power despite never having played the series before.

Paradox games might be "deep" but they're hardly challenging.

Paradox games are complex. But complexity =/= depth. Strategically they're just not too deep nor balanced.

 

[InterAl]

You miss Soren? Yes that is true, I am surprised I say the same thing. But the person who I really miss is Brian Renyolds. He made Civ II. He made Alpha Centauri.

He is the one who is truely missed.

He's also the one who made RoN. Another flop.
Civ 2 and onwards were good because they were based upon an already very solid design foundation. But look at Brian's original creations. He isn't a great game designer imo.

 

[mattigus]

You miss Soren? Yes that is true, I am surprised I say the same thing. But the person who I really miss is Brian Renyolds. He made Civ II. He made Alpha Centauri.

He is the one who is truely missed.

What I don't understand, is why does Sid take all the credit, when he does so little? It was all Renyolds and Soren who did almost all the work in Civ II A/C and Civ IV.

If you miss Brian Reynolds, you can play his latest creation on Facebook. It's a game called "FrontierVille" by Zynga. I'm totally serious.

I can do this all day.

 

[Matjillam]

He's also the one who made RoN. Another flop.
Civ 2 and onwards were good because they were based upon an already very solid design foundation. But look at Brian's original creations. He isn't a great game designer imo.

RoN a flop? It's one of the greatest RTS games ever made! I LOVED it and still do, it was an awesome game (especially in MP).

Don't know anything about how many copies it sold but it was surely a great game.

 

[Jerieth]

ahaha ! Fail. Civilization V is better than Civ 4.

No its not. Civ 4 in its current state is more fun to play than Civ V. I can only hope Civ 5 will improve with updates and expansions, so I don't feel like I wasted my money.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Do not bash any user groups of this board here. Terms like "console kiddies" are not accepted here.

 

[Hsinchu]

If you miss Brian Reynolds, you can play his latest creation on Facebook. It's a game called "FrontierVille" by Zynga. I'm totally serious.

I can do this all day.

Brian Reynolds is partly responsible for all those inane Facebook notifications that I keep getting but am too lazy to block for three different incarnations of the same game?

 

[Buccaneer]

I, too, very much miss Soren. I loved reading his articles and posts about game theories and concepts. Instead, he was replaced by a Civ3 modder - which has its advantages.

 

[Evocatus]

He's also the one who made RoN. Another flop.

Sure.

 

[zurichuk]

He's also the one who made RoN. Another flop.
Civ 2 and onwards were good because they were based upon an already very solid design foundation. But look at Brian's original creations. He isn't a great game designer imo.

I really enjoy RoN, fast and furious, and certainly no flop, still fire it up from time to time

 

[InterAl]

High scores mean nothing. Spore got high scores, Civ5 gets high scores, every Sims game gets high scores. RoN is a badly designed game IMO, just like countless others.

 

[Mannu]

Some of you like it, great, but some of us don't. Why is that such a big issue?

Because you won't shut up about it and go away.

 

[Aristos]

Because you won't shut up about it and go away.

and I guess this does not merit a "moderator action"... yes, right.

 

[Gangor]

(as it was core to Sid's vision before).

I take umbrage at this. Sid has previously stated that simplicity (rather than complexity) is central to his philosophy. Civ is a combination of very simple concepts that gives the appearance of a complex whole.

Like a giant game of chess, really.

 

[CrimsonEdge]

I guess I'm such a console kiddy that I've been playing PC games since Warcraft (the first, you know, the one with the roads?) because I really like Civ 5.

I guess I'm also a console kiddy because I played TFC (that's Team Fortress Classic ~ probably the only FPS that could never make it as a console game) competitevly and was part of a team that won one of the biggest, at the time, leagues (UGC Plat).

But you're right.

I also play Rock Band.

 

[Centurio]

Well, threads like this take the fear of change to a whole new level. I just finished a session of Civilization V, and while I didn't enjoy it as much as IV (probably because I'm still figuring things out, and there are no mods or scenarios yet) it is a well polished game, certainly not dumbed down from base Civilization IV. I think that people might be confusing base Civilization IV with heavily modified BTS 3.19 patch Civilization IV in their comparisons. To me, that just isn't fair. As for the console insulting, I find that needlessly disrespectful; just because a console doesn't lend itself to charts and graphs piled on charts and graphs in its games doesn't mean that the games on that console and their players are inherently inferior to computer games and their players; i.e. there are just as many obnoxious, racist morons playing Counter-Strike as there are playing Halo.