I need non-technical help!

[LucyDuke]

Hi chess dudes.

I'm lookin' for some input from some chessy-type people. My chess go-tos and design go-tos haven't come up with a satisfactory solution for me on this.

I make stuff with clay. I've had an idea bopping around since high school for a chess set I'd like to make. I've finally started on its actual construction, but I've still got a dilemma. It'll be as much of an art piece as a functional chess set, which is why I want to get this part right.

The idea behind the theme is simple geometric solids, in two cases (so far) a combination of simple solids.

Here's what I've got:

• The pawns are spheres. Though they're not the simplest piece in the game (there are three different things they can do, right?), they're the commonest and dullest. They're the most limited in movement, they've got the least value, and they're just plain plain.
  
  
• The rooks are cubes. Cubes' edges are straight lines perpendicular to each other, their faces are perpendicular, just as the rooks' options are all perpendicular.
  
  
• The bishops are tetrahedra. The sides of a tetrahedron are triangles, suggesting diagonals. The bishops' moves are diagonals.
  
  
• The queen is a tetrahedron upon a cube, stacked one on the other. The queen can do what the rook can do and what the bishop can do, and she ought to be larger than the lesser pieces. The tetrahedron on top of the cube is strictly practical, since it'd be a nightmare trying to make a cube upon a tetrahedron strong enough and centered enough.
  
  
• The king is a sphere upon a tetrahedron upon a cube. The tetrahedron pierces the sphere somewhat, again for practical reasons. The king has all the range of the queen, which is the range of the rook and the bishop, except that he's limited to one step - like (most of the time) a pawn.

I'm at a loss for the knight. His moves are cracked out. There's no simple symbolism that suggests "two some way and then to the side". There are no other simple geometric solids to conscript. I realize I'm going to have to break the pattern, but I want to do it with as little disruption as possible.

The best I've come up with is a cylinder. It's got some flat edges and right angles, evocative of the rook's straight lines, and it's got a circular section, like the pawn with his limits in distance. But I don't like it, it's not terribly distinctive and it's kind of random. I've also considered a sickeningly literal representation of him, a set of four cubes stacked in an "L" shape, but that's not at all harmonious with the other solids. Another possibility that makes me chuckle but would be awful in practice is an amorphous blob, either hard, or, least practically, a soft moldable blob. I don't really like any of these ideas.

So what I'm looking for from you folks is a suggestion of solid shape that fits the pattern of simple geometric solids and somehow captures the use of the knight.

I'd also appreciate comments about the suitability or unsuitability of the other shapes I've chosen. I play a bit of chess, but not nearly enough to have the types of insights into the characters of the cast that y'all've probably got.

​

 

[Tomoyo]

Half a cylinder?

As in, cut it diagonally ('cause otherwise it'd be just a smaller cylinder ).

You can even make the height-to-diameter ratio 2:1 to emulate the knight's motion.

Or you don't have to cut the cylinder all the way diagonally, you could do it lipstick-style...

 

[Narz]

Sounds very cool Lucy. I tried to make a chess set of clay once but it wasn't very practical at all (the pieces likely would have cracked) so I quit after just a couple of pawns.

I read your plan for each pieces. Sounds like it makes sense. Not sure about the knight, maybe just some wild creative (but not goofy or impractical looking) shape or some sneaky/stealthy looking shape.

Dunno, maybe look around at other geometrical sets (online probably) for inspiration.

Good luck, have fun & post some pics!

In fact, when you finish join Narz's people on chess.com (90% Civfanatics) and post them there too (we don't have any group pics yet).

 

[LucyDuke]

Half a cylinder?

As in, cut it diagonally ('cause otherwise it'd be just a smaller cylinder ).

You can even make the height-to-diameter ratio 2:1 to emulate the knight's motion.

Or you don't have to cut the cylinder all the way diagonally, you could do it lipstick-style...

That's a much better idea than a regular cylinder, thanks.

The only trouble is that that (2:1) would make him proportioned like the royalty, which I'm kind of trying to avoid.

It would make it easier to shape, too, since I could just make a cylinder then slice it into its two knights.

Sounds very cool Lucy. I tried to make a chess set of clay once but it wasn't very practical at all (the pieces likely would have cracked) so I quit after just a couple of pawns.

How come it wasn't practical? What sort of clay were you using?

I read your plan for each pieces. Sounds like it makes sense. Not sure about the knight, maybe just some wild creative (but not goofy or impractical looking) shape or some sneaky/stealthy looking shape.

Dunno, maybe look around at other geometrical sets (online probably) for inspiration.

Good luck, have fun & post some pics!

In fact, when you finish join Narz's people on chess.com (90% Civfanatics) and post them there too (we don't have any group pics yet).

I'm trying to avoid "inspiration" through other sets, I feel like, for this particular project, it would taint my plan.

I'll definitely post pics, although I'm pretty sure this is going to be a seriously long-term project. I'm pretty meticulous.

 

[Narz]

How come it wasn't practical? What sort of clay were you using?

Dunno exactly, some type that this survivalist dude I met on the peakoil forums brought for me. He dug it up himself from Arkansas when he used to live there. I hadn't used clay in about 20 years but I thought I'd play with it. It didn't stick to itself very well and seemed fragile. Probably your situation bears little resemblance to mine in that you actually seem to know what you're doing (and working with).

I'm trying to avoid "inspiration" through other sets, I feel like, for this particular project, it would taint my plan.

I understand!

I'll definitely post pics, although I'm pretty sure this is going to be a seriously long-term project. I'm pretty meticulous.

May the force be with you!

You should make a board too. It's pretty easy & shouldn't cost you too much. Even someone as unhandy as myself can pull it off. Proof!

 

[WhiteEagle22]

A chess set out of clay made in shapes? Very clever and artistic as well.:biggrin: It would be a project even I could get into, and actually finish. I say "actually" finish because most of time I tend to abandon projects, unless I get a brainstorm of an idea. The latest idea I abandoned: a program that would split composites into their primes. Would have been great for cracking RSA permanently, because I had an idea that would have worked, except this program was to be part of the ultimate project.

 

[LucyDuke]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'm still looking for suggestions!

Dunno exactly, some type that this survivalist dude I met on the peakoil forums brought for me. He dug it up himself from Arkansas when he used to live there. I hadn't used clay in about 20 years but I thought I'd play with it. It didn't stick to itself very well and seemed fragile. Probably your situation bears little resemblance to mine in that you actually seem to know what you're doing (and working with).

I shouldn't be surprised. It sounds like your dude didn't really know what he was doing either.

I'm actually using polymer clay (which isn't clay at all, it's a "synthetic modelling compound") because the colors and textures I want would be impossible - literally impossible, not just difficult - with real dug-outta-earth-and-glazed clay.

You should make a board too. It's pretty easy & shouldn't cost you too much. Even someone as unhandy as myself can pull it off. Proof!

I am planning to make a matching board as well, of course. Easy, though, not so much, with this medium. It's sure to be more work than probably all of the pieces combined. (I'm going to get a thin sheet of hardwood, felt the bottom, and use veneer tiles of polyclay for the checkers and border.)

A chess set out of clay made in shapes? Very clever and artistic as well.:biggrin: It would be a project even I could get into, and actually finish. I say "actually" finish because most of time I tend to abandon projects, unless I get a brainstorm of an idea. The latest idea I abandoned: a program that would split composites into their primes. Would have been great for cracking RSA permanently, because I had an idea that would have worked, except this program was to be part of the ultimate project.

I used to abandon most projects, too, but I've finally set aside studio space, and it's made an amazing difference in my productivity. I don't get distracted by television or computer or whatsuch anymore, now the only diversions are mini-projects when I get bored with whatever big thing I'm working on.

 

[Narz]

I shouldn't be surprised. It sounds like your dude didn't really know what he was doing either.

He's pretty crafty actually, he did tell me making chess pieces designed to be banged around with natural clay was probably a pretty poor idea but I wanted to try it anyway.

I'm actually using polymer clay (which isn't clay at all, it's a "synthetic modelling compound") because the colors and textures I want would be impossible - literally impossible, not just difficult - with real dug-outta-earth-and-glazed clay.

I am planning to make a matching board as well, of course. Easy, though, not so much, with this medium. It's sure to be more work than probably all of the pieces combined. (I'm going to get a thin sheet of hardwood, felt the bottom, and use veneer tiles of polyclay for the checkers and border.)

Cool, well post pics all along the way, not just of the finished product!

I used to abandon most projects, too, but I've finally set aside studio space, and it's made an amazing difference in my productivity. I don't get distracted by television or computer or whatsuch anymore, now the only diversions are mini-projects when I get bored with whatever big thing I'm working on.

Cool, I wish I had space to myself! What else are you working on? Or already finished?

 

[LucyDuke]

He's pretty crafty actually, he did tell me making chess pieces designed to be banged around with natural clay was probably a pretty poor idea but I wanted to try it anyway.

Weird clay, then, I suppose. The typical clay (earth clay, not polyclay) people work with should be tough enough to endure the stress of a game of chess, once it's properly fired and finished. It's not like you're chucking 'em at walls or anything.

Cool, well post pics all along the way, not just of the finished product!

I'll try. It's not always terribly easy to get a camera for an extended period.

Cool, I wish I had space to myself! What else are you working on? Or already finished?

Well, it's not technically to myself, I share the room with my mother. She's got her "area" with her potter's wheel and a work table, I've got my "area" with a work table and a billion drawers full of crap.

As far as what I've made... I'll try to get some pictures tomorrow.

 

[Narz]

Cool, looking forward to 'em.

 

[Fifty]

Right triangles, however high you need them to be to fit the size of the other pieces, where the ratio of the length of the little leg to the big (non-hypotenuse) leg is 2:3

The proportions of the legs would describe the right triangle that you could trace if you imagine the movement of the knight.

I suppose you'll whine about the lack of symmetry though Typical lack of artistic vision.

see like how it makes the shape when the knight moves from teh green dot space to the blue dot space!? you can have the triangles pointing up or laying flat whatever your heart desires!!!!!!!!


another idea: make the knights like little horses cuz back in medieiveaival times knights ued to ride horses so it hella fits.

 

[Xyan]

How about a cone? The L-shaped movement does signify a circular movement. (Actually, cavalries are used for flanking in most battles.) And it also demonstrates the knight's (almost) equal status with the bishop on the chess board.

 

[LucyDuke]

Cool, looking forward to 'em.

It'll be some days!

Right triangles, however high you need them to be to fit the size of the other pieces, where the ratio of the length of the little leg to the big (non-hypotenuse) leg is 2:3

The proportions of the legs would describe the right triangle that you could trace if you imagine the movement of the knight.

I suppose you'll whine about the lack of symmetry though Typical lack of artistic vision.

see like how it makes the shape when the knight moves from teh green dot space to the blue dot space!? you can have the triangles pointing up or laying flat whatever your heart desires!!!!!!!!

You described two dimensions! I need three dimensions!

Unless you mean it tetrahedreally, that two faces would be right triangles, the base would be an isosceles right triangle, and the remaining face would be an isosceles triangle. Is that what you meant??

another idea: make the knights like little horses cuz back in medieiveaival times knights ued to ride horses so it hella fits.

You are priceless.

How about a cone? The L-shaped movement does signify a circular movement. (Actually, cavalries are used for flanking in most battles.) And it also demonstrates the knight's (almost) equal status with the bishop on the chess board.

I was thinking about that last night, actually! The only thing I don't love about it is that perfect cones are super-difficult to create with the techniques I'm using. But I still really like its regularity.

Does the knight have equalish status with the bishop? There are point values for each piece, aren't there? These are the kind of things I want to take into account!

 

[Narz]

Does the knight have equalish status with the bishop? There are point values for each piece, aren't there? These are the kind of things I want to take into account!

• pawn = 1 (the unit all other pieces are measured by)
• knight & bishop = 3 (knights can be better in certain situations, bishops better in others but for all intensive purposes, they're equal)
• rook = 5
• queen = 9 (better than a rook + bishop because she can choose either's moves at any given time)
• king = ∞ (he is trapped = game over)

You should give the pawn some little subtle symbol of potential greatness though, after all, the lowly pawn has to potential to promote to a mighty queen.

 

[LucyDuke]

• pawn = 1 (the unit all other pieces are measured by)
• knight & bishop = 3 (knights can be better in certain situations, bishops better in others but for all intensive purposes, they're equal)
• rook = 5
• queen = 9 (better than a rook + bishop because she can choose either's moves at any given time)
• king = ∞ (he is trapped = game over)

You should give the pawn some little subtle symbol of potential greatness though, after all, the lowly pawn has to potential to promote to a mighty queen.

Well, he'll have the same skin color as the queen.

This is actually really good. Originally I wasn't sure precisely how I was going to determine the sizes of the pieces, whether they would have equal heights, or equal-area bases, or equal edges, or equal overall volume, or what. This way I can use those numbers for volume (assigning the king something just a bit above the queen's). Since a cube of side length x has more volume than a tetrahedron of side length x, they may end up balancing very well.

Thanks!

 

[Sashie VII]

Still waiting for photos....

 

[LucyDuke]

Progress on this particular project is limited to sketches, formulae, and some of the foil cores of the pieces. I'll do my best to document the process, though.

 

[Fifty]

You described two dimensions! I need three dimensions!

I DONT KNOW HOW TO DESCRIBE IT USING LIKE TETRAISOHEDRAHEXASTUPIGON TERMINOLOGY BUT WHAT IM THINKING IT SOMETHING LIKE IF YOU TOOK A RECTANGULAR BOX AND SLICED IT IN HALF ACROSS THE DIAGONAL, IT'D BE LIKE A WEDGE OR SOMETHING POINTED UPWARD WITH A RECTANGULAR BASE AND THE SIDES OF ITS VERY EEEZZZEEE TO SEE WHAT IM SAYING IMO YOU JUST LACK ARTISITIC VISION

 

[WhiteEagle22]

Now that picture post and big text was dazzling!

 

[DaveShack]

A step pyramid might be another idea for the knight. Imagine 5 cubes, 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the rook in each dimension. Arrange 4 of them in a square, stack the 5th on top. Except instead of separate cubes make that shape all at once.