So, how long has it been since I've posted here? Bah... I got Beyond the Sword a while back. My girlfriend is still playing this game... every... damn... day. In Warlords, the Hall of Fame is filled with her victories (on Noble difficulty), yet she still claims she's no better than I am. Just as I was starting to win in vanilla civ, Warlords ruined my method, and now Beyond the Sword has the biggest cheat'n pile of dogshit AI I've ever seen in a game. So.. when are the guides and manuals going to be updated. Maybe you should title it "Civ IV for ******** People" then I might actually understand and learn something.
I Still SUCK At Civ IV.
- Thread starter Nevordan
- Start date
BalbanesBeoulve
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,060
So what's your problem? Is the AI defeating you militarily? Are you getting out-teched? Do all the AI's hate you?
Most of the guides are still valid for BTS. Some of the details might be wrong, but the overall concepts still work.
Most of the guides are still valid for BTS. Some of the details might be wrong, but the overall concepts still work.
Beyond the sword really tightened up the AI. It actually gets fewer 'cheat' type production, science, and unit bonuses then it did in vanilla, but knows more 'experienced player' type tricks. It'll attack in greater numbers with combined arms, manage sea-borne invasions better, whip out defenders, etc, etc..
Several of the people who post regularly on this very forum actually contributed to the AI improvements, and you <i>know</i> they're good players, so what do you expect
troytheface
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,262
i would ask your gilrlfreind to help you reorganize your civ and when a battle is about to happen you can make spaghetti and do the dishes while she takes over generalship.
BalbanesBeoulve
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,060
Hard game is hard 
Revenant27
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 47
so you give up, and your civ is lost to the mists of time. You are single handedly responsible for the deaths of your citizens. booooo
Finally, the update we've all been waiting for! 
However, the surprise result is that Nevordan is still utterly useless at civ.
And this despite his Herculean determination, not to mention his unshakeable optimism!
Did you ever post a savegame, btw? I promise we won't point and laugh. And there's no better way to get to the root of your problems.
The civ-related ones, anyway...
However, the surprise result is that Nevordan is still utterly useless at civ.
And this despite his Herculean determination, not to mention his unshakeable optimism!
Did you ever post a savegame, btw? I promise we won't point and laugh. And there's no better way to get to the root of your problems.
The civ-related ones, anyway...
I did post some saves. I don't remember the result but obviously it didn't help. It feels like the learning curve is actually a vertical line and I'm covered in grease. Can't get off the bottom, can't see over the top.
Okay, so I played another few games and saw what the real problem is.
The AI is syphilis. They can all . .. .. .. . out a settler in about 5 turns and expand and expand and expand, yet they never have any financial trouble and have no problem keeping up in tech. Go to war with one of them, even very early, and you will never get rid of them. I have since started calling the AI... AIDS... Just two more letters and you have the real name.
This is the main problem, plain and simple. The built-in free money and tech and cheap-ass upgrades the AI gets needs to be REMOVED. The game needs to be made fair, straight across the board. Why should the AI(DS) be smarter than a human, AND get free . .. .. .. .? . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
Okay, so I played another few games and saw what the real problem is.
The AI is syphilis. They can all . .. .. .. . out a settler in about 5 turns and expand and expand and expand, yet they never have any financial trouble and have no problem keeping up in tech. Go to war with one of them, even very early, and you will never get rid of them. I have since started calling the AI... AIDS... Just two more letters and you have the real name.
This is the main problem, plain and simple. The built-in free money and tech and cheap-ass upgrades the AI gets needs to be REMOVED. The game needs to be made fair, straight across the board. Why should the AI(DS) be smarter than a human, AND get free . .. .. .. .? . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
What difficulty level are you playing on, again? Cuz if it's Noble or lower, the AI has no advantages over a human start. (No, seriously, you can go into the code and check for yourself. There are plenty of threads about this already. Just do a search for "cheating AI" on the boards.)
Refar
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2005
- Messages
- 4,608
My feeling is your problem is not the cheating AI (Which is not the case on and below Noble anyway). It's you just dont really like the game. You dont want to play it for fun, you just wan't to win because your Girlfriend does...
So instead of trying to get some insight into the mechanics/strategy of the game you are looking for a "coocking recipe" for a instant win... Unfortunately this is not how it works...
I'm still reading your other threads (I've started at the 16 pages long thread now) but I can't see if you did go for easier difficulties or if you stayed at Noble.
I've played Civ since Civ 1 on the Amiga and I've usually played at chieftain difficulty. I thought it was fun playing that level, so why change? Chieftain was the easiest back then, btw. I did the same on Civ 2 and 3. But now I moved onto Warlord. And it was difficult, as you have to micromanage a little bit to be able to win. I was as frustrated as you, since I mostly ended up in a corner hitting space for 1000 years. But then I discovered a nice thread about someone who was in the same situation: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=253486 and now I'm starting to win with "ease".
There are a few tricks, but I won't post them, as they are posted already on this forum. But I'll tell you this: The most important thing IMHO is that you play the game, and don't let it play for you. Micromanage, choose expensive techs just to get something you want, even go for a persecution of an opponent. Micromanagement might sound boring, but it is fun when you have your first, few cities. They are also the most important to get right. After you have a solid micromanaged base, you can let the next cities you capture go on auto. That way you can go from city level to empire level management.
I've played Civ since Civ 1 on the Amiga and I've usually played at chieftain difficulty. I thought it was fun playing that level, so why change? Chieftain was the easiest back then, btw. I did the same on Civ 2 and 3. But now I moved onto Warlord. And it was difficult, as you have to micromanage a little bit to be able to win. I was as frustrated as you, since I mostly ended up in a corner hitting space for 1000 years. But then I discovered a nice thread about someone who was in the same situation: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=253486 and now I'm starting to win with "ease".
There are a few tricks, but I won't post them, as they are posted already on this forum. But I'll tell you this: The most important thing IMHO is that you play the game, and don't let it play for you. Micromanage, choose expensive techs just to get something you want, even go for a persecution of an opponent. Micromanagement might sound boring, but it is fun when you have your first, few cities. They are also the most important to get right. After you have a solid micromanaged base, you can let the next cities you capture go on auto. That way you can go from city level to empire level management.
The AI can rapid-expand 12 cities when I'm still at 40% research with 6, despite shitloads of worked floodplain cottages... I don't believe it. Even if what you say is true only in referrence to built-in free gold/research/production-per turn, then it at least has cheap or free unit upgrades.
And I'm sorry to say you're wrong. No, I don't like the game (but I do, really, I'm just mad at myself because I AM TOO STUPID TO PLAY IT WELL)... because it's like playing an on-line game with a bunch of insufferable pricks. That's what all of the AI are. Insufferable Pricks. Who cheat. I try to play it for fun, but I'm tired of losing every game. My girlfriend wins the Space Race and Cultural Victories, which I don't really care for. Though at this point, I would even take a Cultural Victory. Sure, no war? I'm sure it would be easier to just kiss all those insufferable pricks' asses and go peaceful the entire game. I'd rather kill them. All of them.
*sigh* I'm going to go play the game... again. Each day I forget about how mad I am at Civ IV and myself, and how much I truly suck at it. Then I am quickly reminded. I'll save the game and post it here. But I don't think there's any hope for me. Maybe I really am incapable of being as good at it as the rest of you. Maybe I'm ********.
Okay, if you really do want to get better, here's something to try:
*Start a new game on your usual settings with your favourite leader. Be prepared to explain both choices.
*Regenerate until you get a start you like the look of. Be prepared to explain why you chose that start.
*Take each turn slowly - really think about what you're doing, even with regards to very minor choices. Try to remember (or write down) some of the dilemmas you faced, and the reasons for the decisions you made.
*Play for twenty turns. Save.
*Play for another forty turns. Save.
*Play for another forty turns. Save.
*Report back to us with the saves (a couple of screenshots would be helpful too) and an explanation of what you did and, crucially, why you did it.
*In your report, focus on your own choices and NOT the behaviour of the AI. You can mention the AI's actions, of course, but only to the extent that these were relevant to the decisions you made.
*You should also include a summary of what you think your next moves would be, and of any longer-term plans you've started to develop.
Assuming that the root of your problems is evident in your early-game choices (which seems likely if you're getting out-teched and out-expanded on Noble), we can then suggest some remedies and help you to overcome whatever is currently holding you back.
One more thing.... As amusing as I find your posts, you really shouldn't swear so much. This isn't an adults-only site, and some people take offence to that kind of language here (inc. the mods - be warned!).
*Start a new game on your usual settings with your favourite leader. Be prepared to explain both choices.
*Regenerate until you get a start you like the look of. Be prepared to explain why you chose that start.
*Take each turn slowly - really think about what you're doing, even with regards to very minor choices. Try to remember (or write down) some of the dilemmas you faced, and the reasons for the decisions you made.
*Play for twenty turns. Save.
*Play for another forty turns. Save.
*Play for another forty turns. Save.
*Report back to us with the saves (a couple of screenshots would be helpful too) and an explanation of what you did and, crucially, why you did it.
*In your report, focus on your own choices and NOT the behaviour of the AI. You can mention the AI's actions, of course, but only to the extent that these were relevant to the decisions you made.
*You should also include a summary of what you think your next moves would be, and of any longer-term plans you've started to develop.
Assuming that the root of your problems is evident in your early-game choices (which seems likely if you're getting out-teched and out-expanded on Noble), we can then suggest some remedies and help you to overcome whatever is currently holding you back.
One more thing.... As amusing as I find your posts, you really shouldn't swear so much. This isn't an adults-only site, and some people take offence to that kind of language here (inc. the mods - be warned!).
Kelvenor
Chieftain
I would recommend that you read Snaaty "guide" for BTS...it has a good concept of capping your Capital early by building defenders and then rexing with settler rush and sufficient workers to bring you up to par with AI. Claim a part of the map with 7-8cities, tech toward an advance military tech...Lower difficulty try maceman cats/trebs rush higher level rifleman. Pick your weakest neighbour that’s just begging to be conquer and assimilate/vassalage his population.
You need to be patient it’s not a all type map strategy, but some tips are good for most map type...
If you have a crappy start don’t be afraid to regenerate the map, pick a strong leader Lizy with redcoats + unique building makes it’s a good civ to get use to the game mechanics, once you feel comfortable with the game you can try your luck with other civs. IMOP consider Liz like your training wheels of your first bike but for civ
.
Try noble, save every ten turn if you made a big game breaking error example attacking the vassal of the strongest civ (yeah this happen to me this weekend did not check the diplo screen
).
Try to remember that food=production, settle near food resources first and WORK them early; research the tech if necessary AH, Fishing etc. You can REX toward happy resource latter. Rex toward your neighbour and cut him off your backland/ressources. Look at Canada 85% of its pop is on Can/US border but still have lots of back lands (well mostly frozen ) claims on resources in the northern parts Sask, wheat, Alberta`s Oil, Ontario mineral, NWT diamond/furs, forest and wild games don’t forget NB lobster mmmm.
Plan you cities improvement, you migth want to check out the Empire Management section in the war Academy I learned a lot abouth game mechanics from these articles, Specialised your city early, establish production centers. Remember that every tile need 2 food/1pop to be worked, every 2 surplus food can count toward working a mine workshop; etc. Grasland cottage are self suficiant When looking at a city screen I do a -food count exemple: plain hill - 2food, balance by 2 grassland farm pre biology. Try not to wast worker turns. Try to anticipate your pop caps vs workable terrain tiles with avalable ressources for happy and health caps.
If you lucky Iron or Copper will pop within your border. If not Archer are you best bet. Learned to use the wip, slavery can give you great early production advantages, bassic Idea is use slavery when in only a turn, your city pop will grow at the cost of 1 pop; Granaries are god given tools for slavery specialy in Highfood low production cities.
Plan ahead, make friend early….trade wisely and maintain a decent army and you should not be backstabs…you on the other hand can backstab your friends later hehehehe. But most importantly, have fun !
You need to be patient it’s not a all type map strategy, but some tips are good for most map type...
If you have a crappy start don’t be afraid to regenerate the map, pick a strong leader Lizy with redcoats + unique building makes it’s a good civ to get use to the game mechanics, once you feel comfortable with the game you can try your luck with other civs. IMOP consider Liz like your training wheels of your first bike but for civ
.Try noble, save every ten turn if you made a big game breaking error example attacking the vassal of the strongest civ (yeah this happen to me this weekend did not check the diplo screen
). Try to remember that food=production, settle near food resources first and WORK them early; research the tech if necessary AH, Fishing etc. You can REX toward happy resource latter. Rex toward your neighbour and cut him off your backland/ressources. Look at Canada 85% of its pop is on Can/US border but still have lots of back lands (well mostly frozen ) claims on resources in the northern parts Sask, wheat, Alberta`s Oil, Ontario mineral, NWT diamond/furs, forest and wild games don’t forget NB lobster mmmm
. Plan you cities improvement, you migth want to check out the Empire Management section in the war Academy I learned a lot abouth game mechanics from these articles, Specialised your city early, establish production centers. Remember that every tile need 2 food/1pop to be worked, every 2 surplus food can count toward working a mine workshop; etc. Grasland cottage are self suficiant
When looking at a city screen I do a -food count exemple: plain hill - 2food, balance by 2 grassland farm pre biology. Try not to wast worker turns. Try to anticipate your pop caps vs workable terrain tiles with avalable ressources for happy and health caps. If you lucky Iron or Copper will pop within your border. If not Archer are you best bet. Learned to use the wip, slavery can give you great early production advantages, bassic Idea is use slavery when in only a turn, your city pop will grow at the cost of 1 pop; Granaries are god given tools for slavery specialy in Highfood low production cities.
Plan ahead, make friend early….trade wisely and maintain a decent army and you should not be backstabs…you on the other hand can backstab your friends later hehehehe. But most importantly, have fun !
Revenant27
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 47
one thing that helped me back when I was getting owned on noble, I took some time to actually learn about the game mechanics. example. I used to just be like, alright I want the most hammers, the most commerce(which I used to think was gold) and the most food. When I took the time to learn such things as, 2 food = 1 pop, hammer overflow, proper build orders (no more building a barracks first, no wonder I sucked) city specialization and also that sliders don't matter that much, its all about commerce. these are just examples. Once I learned the mechanics better, I began to experiment with expansion and military. Now you say you have so many cities that your at 40% research. stop expanding for a bit (or take it down to 20% ) and focus on infastructure. Once those cottages start to bloom into towns, you will find yourself in the tech lead much faster than you think. Also (this might be just me) I hardly ever raze a city unless its super crappy.
as one of the more experienced posters here has in their sig (sorry i forget who)
Land is Power
and that 20% research means nothing when you have 3 former jungle cities booming with 12+ towns each.
one last tidbit, on a certain game I played as vikings is when i truly learned, i dropped myself down to 30% research expansion, but I got so many cottages up that my economy skyrocketed just in time for a massive berserker/treb/knight invasion. by the 1700s I was 6 or 7 techs ahead, and my lead just kept growing. and all this info I learned came from this website (thanks civfanatics!)
) and focus on infastructure. Once those cottages start to bloom into towns, you will find yourself in the tech lead much faster than you think. Also (this might be just me) I hardly ever raze a city unless its super crappy. as one of the more experienced posters here has in their sig (sorry i forget who)
Land is Power
and that 20% research means nothing when you have 3 former jungle cities booming with 12+ towns each.
one last tidbit, on a certain game I played as vikings is when i truly learned, i dropped myself down to 30% research expansion, but I got so many cottages up that my economy skyrocketed just in time for a massive berserker/treb/knight invasion. by the 1700s I was 6 or 7 techs ahead, and my lead just kept growing. and all this info I learned came from this website (thanks civfanatics!)
Kelvenor
Chieftain
@Winston Hughes
Great Idea!
vicawoo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 3,226
You sound pretty upset about all this, I don't think civilization should be something that can undermine someone's happiness.
This won't sound very helpful, but I doubt that even being good at civ 4 will make you very happy.
Similar threads
