I want to make a Civ indie game!

[gfurst]

Well, I'm kind of ashamed of the title, and I've no idea where to put this topic
My favorite is Civ4 with mods, but i liked some of the features of Civ5
Anyway i feel like it has fallen short and disappointed a lot of long time fans, leaving a hole in the community.
Most of us are just adjusting as the designers release exp packs to fix the game.

Couple of years back i was self-mind-raped whole thinking a sort of overhaul modpack, but with the indie wave of nowadays, why shouldn't i try for it?
If you're curious about my mod ideas, its the link in my signature.

The game itself would have it similarities but differ in concept and feel.
How would one go from developing a game?
What you guys think?

 

[Kerey]

Get a team together of like-minded people and just go for it, hacking nights and weekends if necessary. Save up and quit your job if you can swing that. If you're any good at all (this assumes you are a coder), you have a network that will take you back in anytime. I did it, and I am regularly contacted by people trying to poach me from my own company (seriously recruiters?), including my former employer begging to get me back. You're not going to go hungry.

Also, don't try to make Civ or please everyone. You won't be able to match the feature set a large team can deliver, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, since it allows you to focus on only the important bits. You've got to find a niche.

 

[Red Key]

Have you heard of FreeCiv? Maybe you could contribute to or build upon it.

 

[Kerey]

Yeah, Red Key's suggestion is perfect if you want to treat is more as a hobby at first before taking the plunge on your own IP. It's a fantastic way of building up a name and fanbase for yourself.

You'll want to be familiar with the licensing of Freeciv and the implications for any commercialization you may wish to do as well if you use their code. Besides the boring legal stuff, it all comes down to respecting the wishes of the folks who spent a ton of time working on the project.

Read more about that here:
Freeciv
GPL
AGPL (used in Freeciv.net web client)

 

[gfurst]

Have you heard of FreeCiv? Maybe you could contribute to or build upon it.

Also, don't try to make Civ or please everyone. You won't be able to match the feature set a large team can deliver, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, since it allows you to focus on only the important bits. You've got to find a niche.

Thanks Kerey, you gave spot on advise
I successfully contacted the developer of the Conquest game( awesome fast paced, you should take a look and call me for a match).
Had a good talk with him and not only found out they're working on a Alpha Centauri 'type of" "successor"( which is awesome and i can't wait to see),
but also that he liked my ideas and may be like minded as well.

 

[Kerey]

Oh no! Simultaneous turn-based multiplayer is my niche! Go away Conquest!

Haha, guess I just have to step my game up, because in reality we will all learn from each other and ultimately the fans win, which makes me happy.

Best of luck to you and PM or Google me for contact info if you want to chat sometime. And don't be afraid to go for it!

-Kerey Roper
Founder Riveting Games

 

[warpus]

What sort of programming experience do you have?

Just curious. Good luck with your project!

 

[gfurst]

Oh no! Simultaneous turn-based multiplayer is my niche! Go away Conquest!

Haha, guess I just have to step my game up, because in reality we will all learn from each other and ultimately the fans win, which makes me happy.

Best of luck to you and PM or Google me for contact info if you want to chat sometime. And don't be afraid to go for it!

-Kerey Roper
Founder Riveting Games

Hey Kerey, I'll definitely be contacting you, already checked out your game.

What sort of programming experience do you have?

Just curious. Good luck with your project!

Thats the big problem, i have basically no practical experience, I'm just a Computer engineering college drop out. Though I like computers and stuff.

 

[civvver]

Programming is not very hard but programming games is a really specific skill set. If you want to pick it up you better start just messing around with it, reading online tutorials, hands on learning because it will take a while to be able to do anything significant.

 

[warpus]

Yeah, the "I'm not a programmer" bit will make this a lot more complicated! Unless you are loaded with cash, in which case you should be easily able to recruit a gung ho group of merry developers who are talented enough to make this happen. You will also need 3d modellers, a music/sound guy, and a team lead with software development experience, and probably a couple other niche people.

One thing I'll mention, because almost every seasoned software developer goes through this. You will almost never be able to recruit a good software developer unless you are willing to pay them as they code - instead of promising them profits after the game is complete... or a share of the company. If your idea is brilliant enough and the coder looks it over and falls in love with it - they might take you on, but the "Hey, I have this awesome idea, want to code it for me and then share the profits?" thing is a big big red flag for any developer who knows what they're doing. You can expect most experienced developers to reject you out of hand, unless like I said they love your idea and this turns into a passion for them - maybe because they've always wanted to build a civ-like game, or for whatever reason. I must warn you though that this rarely happens.

The reason is that ideas are plenty, and none of them are a guaranteed success. Most software projects designed to make money actually fail, at least in the "making money and being successful" regard. A seasoned developer will know this and will generally avoid projects like these. Somebody fresh out of high school might not - but you wouldn't want that sort of inexperienced developer being lead dev.

So I hope you don't think I'm discouraging you, but unless you've got funding lined up for this project, this is gonna be tough! really tough

 

[gfurst]

Thanks warpus, very insightful, I'll sure take this into account.

One thing I'll mention, because almost every seasoned software developer goes through this. You will almost never be able to recruit a good software developer unless you are willing to pay them as they code - instead of promising them profits after the game is complete... or a share of the company. If your idea is brilliant enough and the coder looks it over and falls in love with it - they might take you on, but the "Hey, I have this awesome idea, want to code it for me and then share the profits?" thing is a big big red flag for any developer who knows what they're doing. You can expect most experienced developers to reject you out of hand, unless like I said they love your idea and this turns into a passion for them - maybe because they've always wanted to build a civ-like game, or for whatever reason. I must warn you though that this rarely happens.

 

[civvver]

Yeah, the "I'm not a programmer" bit will make this a lot more complicated! Unless you are loaded with cash, in which case you should be easily able to recruit a gung ho group of merry developers who are talented enough to make this happen. You will also need 3d modellers, a music/sound guy, and a team lead with software development experience, and probably a couple other niche people.

One thing I'll mention, because almost every seasoned software developer goes through this. You will almost never be able to recruit a good software developer unless you are willing to pay them as they code - instead of promising them profits after the game is complete... or a share of the company. If your idea is brilliant enough and the coder looks it over and falls in love with it - they might take you on, but the "Hey, I have this awesome idea, want to code it for me and then share the profits?" thing is a big big red flag for any developer who knows what they're doing. You can expect most experienced developers to reject you out of hand, unless like I said they love your idea and this turns into a passion for them - maybe because they've always wanted to build a civ-like game, or for whatever reason. I must warn you though that this rarely happens.

The reason is that ideas are plenty, and none of them are a guaranteed success. Most software projects designed to make money actually fail, at least in the "making money and being successful" regard. A seasoned developer will know this and will generally avoid projects like these. Somebody fresh out of high school might not - but you wouldn't want that sort of inexperienced developer being lead dev.

So I hope you don't think I'm discouraging you, but unless you've got funding lined up for this project, this is gonna be tough! really tough

Also because good developers are in high demand and paid well. A great developer can command six figures easily. An indie title that has great success split among a small team might pay what, six figures to each person with a year delay to payday? And that's only if it's really successful.

 

[Kerey]

Don't worry about not knowing programming yet. I basically taught myself when I was 13 with a bit of help from my brother. My tech co-founder has taught himself Unity and C# in less than a year with my mentorship (he studied Economics and Anthropology in University.) It's an extremely democratized and merit-based skill that really just requires you to be relatively smart and disciplined.

civver: The six-figures thing is primarily NYC and West Coast US. Even the Midwest US where I'm originally from tends to be slightly lower than that, unless you're an independent contractor. gfurst is from Brazil, so he can take advantage of lower rates there, though I would wager he's also got less capital to toss around, if he has any. He mentioned that he dropped out of school, which doesn't lend itself well to having access to capital if he doesn't have family money or other connections.

warpus: +1 on us devs being skeptical of "idea guys." gfurst would do best for himself in many ways to develop the core technical skill set himself and produce a simple prototype before attempting to recruit a team.

 

[civvver]

He's going to be looking at contractors- I really doubt he's going to offer health insurance I think your best bet is teach yourself and find students interested in doing a project as a demo for launching a career or something.

And like I said, programming is not that hard, but game design and programming a game is a lot of work. How do you go about making an efficient, smart AI? What about real time graphics/object collisions etc? There's a lot to consider.

 

[Thrawn]

So I'm about to start the 3rd year of my game programming degree and thought I'd chime in.

I've been lucky enough to get a part time job doing web based programming (html, css, javascript, php, etc), and compared to what I've been doing on my studies (c++ and directx), non game programming is way easier than game programming. A lot of that is will likely be down to having to doing game stuff in 3D, AI, real time collision detection and response etc, but even with 2D there's still going to be extra things to worry about that what you would get on a corporate IT project.

Tools like Unity certainly make it easier, and I'd recommend learning that, you can definitely make a commercial quality game with it, and there's a bazillion tutorials and resources for it on the internet. It's definitely relatively easy to get something up and running with it.

If you're interested in starting a game project, I'd highly recommend watching Indie Game: The Movie, and the Special Edition extra content that was recently released. It's more about the personal side of indie game development, rather than production, but it's definitely worth watching.

I'd also say just go for it. If it's something you want to do, start learning Unity or a similar tool in your free time and just see what you can get going.

 

[OrsonM]

I'd advice you go for a much much smaller game first. I've bumped into way too many first time indie developers that go for a complex game as their first, and then they are surprised that it's taking them 3+ years to complete it. Failed indie MMORPGS, for example, are a dime a dozen and a running joke in indie developer forums. Making a game is extremely messy, and you gotta learn a lot of awful stuff the hard way.

Get a few games under your belt first. Your second game, your fifth game, that's the one that'll be your masterpiece. But for your very first game... keep it simple and affordable.

 

[civvver]

Rovio made over 100 games before they came up with Angry Birds!

 

[OrsonM]

Rovio made over 100 games before they came up with Angry Birds!

Yikes!... well that's a depressing thought.

Indie development is not a get rich quick scheme, that's for sure.

 

[civvver]

Yeah I read some article on them in a business magazine while sitting in a dr's office. I can't even remember the title but they basically got their start porting titles as a 3rd party developer to pc platforms. This info may be a little off cus I don't remember it that well, but they won some competition for mobile games as students, then started doing the 3rd party work, then decided hey why not make our own mobile games? But at the time mobile gaming was in its infancy. So they produce a ton of games, a lot of flops, then one day angry birds just caught fire. It also was perfect timing with the iphone's popularity.

Moral of the story I think is do what you love. That level of success is usually a perfect storm of opportunity, timing, skill and hard work. You can only control so much of that equation.

 

[Anhellia]

Gfurst, please do poke me if you need music for any of your games. And good luck with your project.