I will never be as good as you at Civ 4.
- Thread starter Nevordan
- Start date
?The early rush simply does not work for me. I must be missing something. I'm supposed to go to war early, but there is only enough time to spit out about 6 axemen. Most of them die attacking the first city, but I always succeed in razing it. Still, I spit out reinforcements, but by the time they make it to the next city, it's too late. The war wages on, I am unable to destroy the civilization because they sneak a settler and a few axemen somewhere else to spread their foul seed and continue to exist. Makes me sick. I just don't get it. I really don't. I've read what I was told to, but it's not working out like I thought it would. I've tried about 6 times now on a standard/continents map.
SickCycle
Prince
I posted all the links you need to learn how to play lol, if you guys just read the online games you'd see visually how talented players play each leader
RandomLeader
Chieftain
I am not an expert but still..
It is not importatant do you destroy civilisation with early war or not. For me there is 2 goals with early war (which I discovered just recently). First is to expand. I don't have to build settlers when I take mature city from AI. Second is to criple my neighboring power. If I don't he is a potential threat in future. Somebody can bribe him/her to go war with me or he/she gets that idea by himself.
If you for example capture first city you encounter and leave 1-2 axeman to defend it, it has certain beneficials. AI often is trying to get it back so it keeps them from pillagin your native land and they will lose forces doing that. Sometimes AI don't even bother to gather a proper stack to do it and suicides his forces one by one. If you take 3 cities (razing or capturing) in early war it's in many cases a deathblow to that civilisation. They will not keep in a tech pace and they can't produce enough military to harass you. You can then wait and finish them of later. Or you can vassalize them later.
There is just a few thoughts to consider.
Hm. That is the way I was doing it before, and I was doing better. But I waited until I got catapults. With catapults I am able to destroy an entire civilization fairly easily, especially if they're pinned off on a coast with only one or two directions they can move (on land). Once I even destroyed a city with only catapults. I guess they really are overpowered, but I'm not complaining. I just wanted to try this early "axeman rush", but it's not happening. I just suck too much.
RandomLeader
Chieftain
What I meant was that early axerush isn't about destroying somebody complete. I think the main purpose for them is to gain territory and cities without investing hammers into them as much as they would otherwise take.
For me 6 axes usually take 1-2 cities. Thats 6*35H=210H and I'll have 2 more cities and those axes. Of course some of them will die in process. Otherwise I would have to spend hammers of 2 settlers 200(?) + possible workers + I would have to do improvments. I usually pick my rush to place where I can capture workers when they are doing improvment and escaping workers always goes to nearest city to hide. If I have enourmous luck, in captured city has already some infra in them and in rare case there is some early wonder.
It's a boost to your own empire with even only a city, even more if there is 2, even more if you get worker/workers and it criples your opponent. At least one of them
But maybe there is article around conserning about early rush and the reasons for it. I'm just quessing and passing on my own feels about it. I might be wrong.
For me 6 axes usually take 1-2 cities. Thats 6*35H=210H and I'll have 2 more cities and those axes. Of course some of them will die in process. Otherwise I would have to spend hammers of 2 settlers 200(?) + possible workers + I would have to do improvments. I usually pick my rush to place where I can capture workers when they are doing improvment and escaping workers always goes to nearest city to hide. If I have enourmous luck, in captured city has already some infra in them and in rare case there is some early wonder.
It's a boost to your own empire with even only a city, even more if there is 2, even more if you get worker/workers and it criples your opponent. At least one of them
But maybe there is article around conserning about early rush and the reasons for it. I'm just quessing and passing on my own feels about it. I might be wrong.
Go with 8 axes with about 4 more reinforcements to take and keep an enemy capital and one or more other cities. If it makes sense to do so, keep pressing with more reinforcements. Try not to rush Protective civs, or else take more than twice as many axes as the capital has archers. Triple to be safe. This sucks so I usually leave Protective civs alone.
Numbers vary depending on how quickly you are rushing and if they have any metal-wielding troops or if they are all lame archers.
Protective civs are in Warlords? I just have plain Civ 4. Pretty sad isn't it?
Well I might as well ask these questions while they're on my mind. I can remember mostly what happened in my last game (Montezuma/Continents/Standard map).
I settled my first city on the first tile the settlers started on, which was a lot of flood plains, two gold mines, stone, cows and spices. A good start, I thought. I researched agriculture first, and built a worker. After agriculture, I researched Hinduism, and got it. Then I researched the wheel and got my worker to the floodplains to speed up population growth. After roads, I went for mining and bronzeworking. I enabled slavery, built a barracks, two warriors, and a settler. By the time the settler was being built, I have a high enough population to grow him quickly. I started scouting for bronze and found it in a rather decent place near dye and rice. I settled there. Then the barbarians started to harass me, so I kicked their teeth in. I built another scout after the settler and sent him out with the other to uncover the map the rest of the way. I found Asoka to the east, and Alexander to the north. We were the only ones on the continent, apparently. I researched animal handling and found horses and worked toward founding my third city. Then Asoka plops a city near my second, which ticks me off because there's several gold mines, silk and cows there that I wanted. So I begin churning out axemen. By this time I have gotten ironworking, and start working on horseback riding (well, I had horses, so...). I churn out 3 jaguars and 5 axemen in one stack, all of them but one had city raider I, and one was a medic. I start working on my second stack and move the first up to Asoka's new city that is irking me. He must have seen this, as he suddenly converts to my religion, probably hoping that will save him. But I'm eager for blood and I attack. I wipe him out with 2 casulaties and several wounded, and raze the city and heal. As I continue up to yet another city he plopped down, guess what happens? He sends two axemen and a settler down to the very same spot I just razed and sets up again!!!! Like a cockroach >:-( About this time I was so aggravated from my past few failed attempts at getting off to a good start, I just quit. But every night since I started posting here has been pretty much like this. It's so #*&#*& aggravating.
Hm I guess there were no questions. Just that one stack isn't enough to take out two cities unless it's about 12, maybe. I don't know how any of you are taking down 2 cities with 6-8 axemen. Unless you're getting them on your first turn.
Well I might as well ask these questions while they're on my mind. I can remember mostly what happened in my last game (Montezuma/Continents/Standard map).
I settled my first city on the first tile the settlers started on, which was a lot of flood plains, two gold mines, stone, cows and spices. A good start, I thought. I researched agriculture first, and built a worker. After agriculture, I researched Hinduism, and got it. Then I researched the wheel and got my worker to the floodplains to speed up population growth. After roads, I went for mining and bronzeworking. I enabled slavery, built a barracks, two warriors, and a settler. By the time the settler was being built, I have a high enough population to grow him quickly. I started scouting for bronze and found it in a rather decent place near dye and rice. I settled there. Then the barbarians started to harass me, so I kicked their teeth in. I built another scout after the settler and sent him out with the other to uncover the map the rest of the way. I found Asoka to the east, and Alexander to the north. We were the only ones on the continent, apparently. I researched animal handling and found horses and worked toward founding my third city. Then Asoka plops a city near my second, which ticks me off because there's several gold mines, silk and cows there that I wanted. So I begin churning out axemen. By this time I have gotten ironworking, and start working on horseback riding (well, I had horses, so...). I churn out 3 jaguars and 5 axemen in one stack, all of them but one had city raider I, and one was a medic. I start working on my second stack and move the first up to Asoka's new city that is irking me. He must have seen this, as he suddenly converts to my religion, probably hoping that will save him. But I'm eager for blood and I attack. I wipe him out with 2 casulaties and several wounded, and raze the city and heal. As I continue up to yet another city he plopped down, guess what happens? He sends two axemen and a settler down to the very same spot I just razed and sets up again!!!! Like a cockroach >:-( About this time I was so aggravated from my past few failed attempts at getting off to a good start, I just quit. But every night since I started posting here has been pretty much like this. It's so #*&#*& aggravating.
Hm I guess there were no questions. Just that one stack isn't enough to take out two cities unless it's about 12, maybe. I don't know how any of you are taking down 2 cities with 6-8 axemen. Unless you're getting them on your first turn.
RandomLeader
Chieftain
If the location was good for that city and other cities were far away I would have done that differently. If early war is result of single annoying city I just take it and hold it. I send main stack to pillage resources (assuming they are far away) and I just wait for the timer that can make peacy with the nation. I think in this case you didn't want early war insake of war it self you just wanted the ground. Why not keep it? It whould have save you the trouble of building your own settler.
If city was size 1 you should have waited it to grow 2. Quick in and out war where you get nice city and at the same time you slow AI down by pillaging.
If city was size 1 you should have waited it to grow 2. Quick in and out war where you get nice city and at the same time you slow AI down by pillaging.
Yes, well... it seems to me that success in this game relies too heavily on luck. I'll give it another week and then I'll likely smash the game disc into plastic dust and make an hour-glass. Sorry. Just extremely annoyed at the game at the moment.
Florian
Prince
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2003
- Messages
- 337
Why are you razing it? Look, you just built all those axemen INSTEAD OF building a settler. The only way you can expand in that situation is to KEEP the city. When people recommend you raze some of the cities you capture, they are assuming a campaign where you take a LOT of cities. If you're just taking one or two, keep them. It's the only way to combine a focused military rush with expansion, and believe me, you need to do both.
Also, don't try to annihilate a civ in your first war with them, unless it just drops into your lap, or unless your first war happens at an advanced point in the game. An axe rush is successful if it grabs one or two cities (which you do NOT raze). Then you make peace and regroup and build more axes, if you're planning on attacking the guy again.
One other thing, I don't think I would axe rush at all if I had two gold in my capital's cross. If you harness both of those early, you'll be a tech juggernaut. Play the builder for a while, and go to war on a delayed time table once you have a technological advantage. If an AI settles near you during that build-up, on land you wanted, have patience. One day, that'll be a nice city for you instead of for him.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
As Arnold Palmer once said: "The funny thing is, the more I practice the luckier I get".
Early axe rush: Take a couple of cities with low cultural defence (20% or less). If you have some city raider 3 axemen, you may be able to take a capital if it is lightly defended. Keep the cities (make sure they are pop 2 before taking the city) unless they are in a really bad position (basically, not enough food). Get peace and if you have alphabet by then extort a tech for peace.
Once you have taken a few cities, keep building axes and tech to construction. Then build catapults, declare war again, and take the capital. You can raze any other cities unless they look like they will pay for themselves. Eliminate the civ if possible, or else extort a tech and finish them off next war. Make sure you capture any settlers/workers (settlers become workers if you attack them) that they send out during the war. Then get code of laws, currency and you should be in a great position to leverage your land advantage.
Early axe rush: Take a couple of cities with low cultural defence (20% or less). If you have some city raider 3 axemen, you may be able to take a capital if it is lightly defended. Keep the cities (make sure they are pop 2 before taking the city) unless they are in a really bad position (basically, not enough food). Get peace and if you have alphabet by then extort a tech for peace.
Once you have taken a few cities, keep building axes and tech to construction. Then build catapults, declare war again, and take the capital. You can raze any other cities unless they look like they will pay for themselves. Eliminate the civ if possible, or else extort a tech and finish them off next war. Make sure you capture any settlers/workers (settlers become workers if you attack them) that they send out during the war. Then get code of laws, currency and you should be in a great position to leverage your land advantage.
Hm. Thank you for that, ParadigmShifter. Maybe it's not war that's killing my brain cells, but juggling all of the things a civilization leader needs to juggle. I get stressed out too easily in the land rush, hoping no one gets that bronze or those horses, or that big pile of gold and silver mines near the river. *sigh* I need to chill out before I give myself a heart attack.
Well I do have some actually, uh... straight forward questions for a change. My mind gets a little mixed up after playing Civ 4 and getting frustrated and angry at it. So I'm just going to start fresh and ask for your advice here. What civilization to play, what map to play it on, what size/sealevel/climate. Montezuma is letting me down. His Jaguar may as well not be there. I have read in Warlords they've improved, but for now they are awful. I didn't like the Quechua that much either, though they do sound like Rodians when they talk. Erm, anyway. Any aggressive civ. Then, should I settle only one city then go to war? Or try to expand as much as I can until I'm blocked in, then build an army? I've been reading up on the "stack of doom", and learned a few things I didn't know about game mechanics. So I think I understand building stacks now, at least enough to get the job done with room for improvement. What I am not sure of is how to defend my own cities. What is best for defense, and how many is "enough" in each city? Should I try to found a religion, or take a holy city? I know how to tell when a city is a holy city, but how do you know if a city has wonders before you decide to keep it or raze it? Am I supposed to open borders and gather intelligence before declaring war, or should I fear the AI are all doing the same to me (and in my past non-aggressive games, this is exactly what always happened: open borders, then come the demands for tribute, and then sudden destruction). I don't know how to work the diplomacy levers. Should I be gifting to neighbors, or does that make them think I'm weak? Should I just hate everyone and kill anyone who messes with me?
Well that's enough questions, I'm so tired and bitter and disgusted, I had better get to sleep. Thanks again, and sorry for the incoherent rambling.
edit: When building reinforcements to send off to an enemy city, do you send them to that city one at a time, or form them on a stack, wait until they're all there, and then send them off? That could take a while...
Well I do have some actually, uh... straight forward questions for a change. My mind gets a little mixed up after playing Civ 4 and getting frustrated and angry at it. So I'm just going to start fresh and ask for your advice here. What civilization to play, what map to play it on, what size/sealevel/climate. Montezuma is letting me down. His Jaguar may as well not be there. I have read in Warlords they've improved, but for now they are awful. I didn't like the Quechua that much either, though they do sound like Rodians when they talk. Erm, anyway. Any aggressive civ. Then, should I settle only one city then go to war? Or try to expand as much as I can until I'm blocked in, then build an army? I've been reading up on the "stack of doom", and learned a few things I didn't know about game mechanics. So I think I understand building stacks now, at least enough to get the job done with room for improvement. What I am not sure of is how to defend my own cities. What is best for defense, and how many is "enough" in each city? Should I try to found a religion, or take a holy city? I know how to tell when a city is a holy city, but how do you know if a city has wonders before you decide to keep it or raze it? Am I supposed to open borders and gather intelligence before declaring war, or should I fear the AI are all doing the same to me (and in my past non-aggressive games, this is exactly what always happened: open borders, then come the demands for tribute, and then sudden destruction). I don't know how to work the diplomacy levers. Should I be gifting to neighbors, or does that make them think I'm weak? Should I just hate everyone and kill anyone who messes with me?
Well that's enough questions, I'm so tired and bitter and disgusted, I had better get to sleep. Thanks again, and sorry for the incoherent rambling.
edit: When building reinforcements to send off to an enemy city, do you send them to that city one at a time, or form them on a stack, wait until they're all there, and then send them off? That could take a while...
manu-fan
Emperor
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2006
- Messages
- 1,005
The best defense is a good offense. Seriously.
On Noble, you can have just a warrior or archer in your cities and that's fine. The key is having a mobile attack force that can take down enemys before getting to your cities. Chariots fit the bill perfectly early on. They are great for taking out barbarians, and great for squishing Axemen! A couple of Spearmen might be necessary if your first opponent seems to have Chariots.
I would expand until you've got 3 or 4 cities and then go to war. War with Axes if you get Bronze early, or Swordsmen + Axes if you don't get close Bronze, but get Iron.
I actually almost never raze cities. As long as the location is not horrible, I'll keep it.
Don't build 2 stacks to attack early against a neighbor, build 1. You can start a war with about 6 Axes if the first target city has only 1 or 2 defends, but you need to be pumping out more to supplement that force.
Don't be afraid to stop, make peace, and re-group for another assault. I've taken a couple of cities off a nearby neighbor, then shown up at the capital with 8 Axes to find 5 archers there (with 60% culture defense). Those are not good odds. I made peace, got some swordsmen and catapults and then finished him off. Because I had taken his other cities, he could not hope withstand the assault, even pumping out more archers.
Remember, use chariots to guard against any sneak attacks by your opponents Axes or archers etc.
After you've destroyed your neighbor, look for the next target. Get more catapults and swordsmen and go after them.
Yes, get Open Borders with your Neighbors. Scout them out. If you are producing military units, you have nothing to fear (on Noble) from them scouting you out.
I send re-enofrcements in a steady stream, 1 at a time. That's assuming that the route is pretty safe, and they can't be intercepted in an unfavorable matchup (Axe vs Chariot for example).
Cheers.
On Noble, you can have just a warrior or archer in your cities and that's fine. The key is having a mobile attack force that can take down enemys before getting to your cities. Chariots fit the bill perfectly early on. They are great for taking out barbarians, and great for squishing Axemen! A couple of Spearmen might be necessary if your first opponent seems to have Chariots.
I would expand until you've got 3 or 4 cities and then go to war. War with Axes if you get Bronze early, or Swordsmen + Axes if you don't get close Bronze, but get Iron.
I actually almost never raze cities. As long as the location is not horrible, I'll keep it.
Don't build 2 stacks to attack early against a neighbor, build 1. You can start a war with about 6 Axes if the first target city has only 1 or 2 defends, but you need to be pumping out more to supplement that force.
Don't be afraid to stop, make peace, and re-group for another assault. I've taken a couple of cities off a nearby neighbor, then shown up at the capital with 8 Axes to find 5 archers there (with 60% culture defense). Those are not good odds. I made peace, got some swordsmen and catapults and then finished him off. Because I had taken his other cities, he could not hope withstand the assault, even pumping out more archers.
Remember, use chariots to guard against any sneak attacks by your opponents Axes or archers etc.
After you've destroyed your neighbor, look for the next target. Get more catapults and swordsmen and go after them.
Yes, get Open Borders with your Neighbors. Scout them out. If you are producing military units, you have nothing to fear (on Noble) from them scouting you out.
I send re-enofrcements in a steady stream, 1 at a time. That's assuming that the route is pretty safe, and they can't be intercepted in an unfavorable matchup (Axe vs Chariot for example).
Cheers.
That's interesting! I had always considered cottages to be an easier way to succeed, and specialists to be something you had to be quite good at Civ to be able to use effectively. In my current game, I challenged myself to base my economy on specialists (using world wonders to help me make settled great ____'s) for the early part of the game. It seems to have helped, although I have taken over a large piece of the map and that's giving me excessive maintenance. (But I have lots of happiness resources, at least.)
Welcome to the club
I have been playing the civilization series since the beginning and I still lose half of my games. I lose Civ4 more then I have lost any of the other ones since the AI is alot more advanced now. I just got the daylights beat out of me about 10 minutes ago. Even though I beat my desk several times and yelled every curse word in the book, it was still a ton of fun. 
I can pack away cultural vics alot, but in the military department, I suck. I have some good strategies but they don't always work. Anyway, this is where you need to be. Search and read here, it will help you out alot.Heh. I also scream every known curse word and make up some along the way. You may find it amusing to know that my woman, who has only played about, oh... 4-5 games... has now won 3 Space Race victories and 1 cultural victory. I haven't even won a cultural victory yet. I've only won 2 Space Race victories. So me having played about 20 games and winning only 2 to her 5 games and winning 4. Oh... uh.. *sob* *cry* THE SHAMEEEEE!!!!
Heh, she found this thread and instantly knew it was me, somehow. She just casually said to me, "So... I'm odd, am I?" "What? Uh, what are you talking about? No idea what you're saying."
I've been trying to get her to make an account here but obviously she does not *need* any help just yet!!!
Well tonight I'm going to try yet again, after reading about 40 pages of stuff today, I have a lot of new information at hand now. This time I will save my progress and try to post it here. Then you can look at it. And laugh at me. Then my girlfriend can laugh at me. Then I can cry.
Heh, she found this thread and instantly knew it was me, somehow. She just casually said to me, "So... I'm odd, am I?" "What? Uh, what are you talking about? No idea what you're saying."
I've been trying to get her to make an account here but obviously she does not *need* any help just yet!!!
Well tonight I'm going to try yet again, after reading about 40 pages of stuff today, I have a lot of new information at hand now. This time I will save my progress and try to post it here. Then you can look at it. And laugh at me. Then my girlfriend can laugh at me. Then I can cry.
*sigh* Here's the game I just played. One is the fresh new game, the other is the last turn I quit on, which obviously means I give up on it. I'm getting pretty f---ing sick of this game's bull----. Reading other people's games isn't helping, reading guides isn't helping, nothing is helping. Maybe I'm just too stupid to play Civ 4 and should just blow my brains out or something.
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