Ideas for Automatic Document Generator utility

...a m a z i n g... :D :eek:

Playing around in memory like that is a nice little skill you have there SpiderZord, I presume you have hacke.. er, 'modded' a few other things in your time! ;)

I have been away from theis thread for a while, it really is impressive what has been achieved so far.

For future releases is there any chance of a config screen to set all these little things ourselves, like which tags to use for output, which things to log and which to ignore?

I play in lots of PBEM games and keeping logs is essential for spoiler threads. This really could make all the difference. :D

:worshp: :worshp: :worshp: :worshp: :worshp:
 
Another update...

I have spent quite a bit of time on the PTL engine - there is quite a bit of accounting in calculating the QSC score. The variables are being read from the ini that cracker supplied me with and a large portion of it is being calculated (basics, territory & units sections) but still needs debugging AND there are still many uncalculated sections... :eek:

The interface has not been touched yet, although I've thought through the screens that I'll need to put together...

I was really hoping to get a version out for May, but as I check my calendar, I don't see it happening :( - but I'd rather not rush the first pass. (Go ahead, throw the popcorn :D )

I'll keep you posted & thanks for your patience ;)
 
No worries Spiderzord, just knowing that there actually are people out there working to free up all the hours I spend on logging the games is priceless. :thumbsup: :D :goodjob:
 
Originally posted by Singularity
]No worries Spiderzord, just knowing that there actually are people out there working to free up all the hours I spend on logging the games is priceless. :thumbsup: :D :goodjob:

Well said!:goodjob: I hope you said that for both of us.:)
 
Wow! I just read through this thread and the progress is amazing. I didn't know it could be done at all. Way to go everyone.

Renata
 
Originally posted by Renata
Way to go everyone.
Really way to go SpiderZord and RufRydyr for the icon.:goodjob: The rest of us are just making suggestions/wishlists and throwing popcorn.:jump:
 
Deep respect, SpiderZord. This sounds wonderful ... for all you Windows players.

Now, how are we going to get an equivalent utility for us Mac users who have just discovered GOTM? VB doesn't play on Mac OS. But if the code for the DLL and the UI, plus screen shots of the UI dialogs can be made available under some agreement once it's reached a stable state I'd be willing to have a crack at a port, at least to Mac OS X.
 
Something just occured to me. Maybe there should be a way or automatic way to turn off QSC scoring after 1000bc so you can log your moves all the way to the end. It might make intelligent posting in the spoiler spreads easier if we can refer to our log notes.
 
I agree. I for one would use the log all the way through if it didn't require a lot of intervention from me. You might want to have a configurable date entry to set the "End" of the QSC period. The quick games are planned for 120 turn which is 170BC, not 1000BC. Just have an entry so the player could type in 100BC, 170BC, 2050AD or whatever they want.
 
If I'd had an automatic logging utility I might have managed to finish GOTM 18 instead of giving up last night around 1550 still at war with everyone else :)

over 1000 years of war apart from a brief 5 turn lull around 1050 or so!

Ted
 
@ TedJackson

Yes, I would love anything that saved time on my always-rushed-to-submit GOTM. I turned mine in just before the deadline EST. I was at war for about half and definitely all of the latter half.
Originally posted by ControlFreak

Really way to go SpiderZord and RufRydyr for the icon.:goodjob: The rest of us are just making suggestions/wishlists and throwing popcorn.:jump:
BTW Add TedJackson to my list of contributors as he is responsible for bringing SpiderZord here in the first place. Sorry I missed you the first time.
 
Originally posted by ControlFreak
BTW Add TedJackson to my list of contributors as he is responsible for bringing SpiderZord here in the first place. Sorry I missed you the first time.

Facilitator to the masses :lol:

Ted
 
@RufRydyr

Looks to be shaping up nicely.

The only reservations I have are that it requires a copy of Excel (which will exclude some players) and that both Civ/PTW & Excel are memory hogs which will mean poorer perfomance on low memory spec machines.

regards

Ted
 
Originally posted by TedJackson
The only reservations I have are that it requires a copy of Excel (which will exclude some players) and that both Civ/PTW & Excel are memory hogs which will mean poorer perfomance on low memory spec machines.

Just some thoughts ...

OpenOffice.org is a free alternative to Excel. It's compatible at the level of these templates - I just opened one on my Mac.

Memory is very cheap these days, and increasing it on a challenged machine can only improve the overall playing experience. If the output can be produced in notepad format then it can be copied and pasted after the game session is over, so Excel and Civ3 don't need to be running simultaneously.
 
Originally posted by TedJackson
@RufRydyr

Looks to be shaping up nicely.

The only reservations I have are that it requires a copy of Excel (which will exclude some players) and that both Civ/PTW & Excel are memory hogs which will mean poorer perfomance on low memory spec machines.

regards

Ted

I was thinking more along the lines of the info contained than using the spreadsheet.

Like having one or two letter codes to represent units. Ctrl-w would type out worker, so ctrl-w 1, would type worker1. Or maybe just a key at the top, so you just type w1 and people that read it also have the key in the output, so they know that w1=worker1.
 
@AlanH
OpenOffice.org is a free alternative to Excel. It's compatible at the level of these templates - I just opened one on my Mac.
I'm afraid I did the "buy an iMAc and get MS Office for £150" deal :) . Unfortunately, there wasn't a "buy an iMAc and get Civ for £10" option :lol: So I play on a PC.

Still, it's good to know that both Mac & PC users have a "No cost" alternative to MS Office and access to the template.

I'm afraid I'm a bit wrapped up in SpiderZord's upcoming PowerTimeLine and even used the demo for GOTM 18. So I'm sorry to say that I hadn't considered the Mac players :(

I agree totally with your points about memory (I've been thumping that particular tub for more years then I care to remember). I'm still amazed/dismayed when I come across machines with only 64/128 Mb and the owners unwilling to make such a small investment for such a big return.

Using notepad while playing and then copying the result to Excel/OpenOffice would seem to be just extra work for no real benefit. Of course I could be wrong :)


@RufRyder
I was thinking more along the lines of the info contained than using the spreadsheet.
Ah... the penny drops. :) Yes, standard abbreviations would be nice.

I'm not sure about hotkeys though. It would be too easy to forget whether Civ or PTL had the input focus and either add spurious entries to your timeline or scatter your SoD to the four winds :lol:

regards


Ted
 
Originally posted by TedJackson
[B@RufRyder
Ah... the penny drops. :) Yes, standard abbreviations would be nice.

I'm not sure about hotkeys though. It would be too easy to forget whether Civ or PTL had the input focus and either add spurious entries to your timeline or scatter your SoD to the four winds :lol:

regards


Ted [/B]

:rotfl:
That would suck.

Little icons to click on might be better then. Like you click on a pic of a worker and it types the word worker out.
 
Umm...maybe I'm missing the point here but,

Why would you ever need to type the word worker? PTL is supposed to be logging every unit action, right? Eventually include filters for this even, to allow logging only what you want. You're worker movement and actions would be logged without typing Ctrl+W, W1 or even worker.

I can see the advantage, if SpiderZord can't get the diplomacy stuff automated, to automatically typing words like "Trade with Egypt". There could be a "Trade with" button and a drop down menu of active civs, or something like that.
 
Originally posted by ControlFreak
Umm...maybe I'm missing the point here but,

Why would you ever need to type the word worker? PTL is supposed to be logging every unit action, right? Eventually include filters for this even, to allow logging only what you want. You're worker movement and actions would be logged without typing Ctrl+W, W1 or even worker.

I can see the advantage, if SpiderZord can't get the diplomacy stuff automated, to automatically typing words like "Trade with Egypt". There could be a "Trade with" button and a drop down menu of active civs, or something like that.

This brings up a good point - the timing and flow of the PTL interface. I'm going to throw down my initial thoughts on the interface so the community can think thru how best the interface should work.

As I have worked thru the code, the doc items seem to fall into two categories:
1) Full turn items - Turn, Gold, QSC Score, Totals for shields, food etc. - no brainer items that require no documentation notes.
2) Real Time items - changes to research and entertainment sliders, technology researching, goody hut results, (some?) unit actions, etc. - items that would need a user note.

With these two categories in mind, it suggests that the category 1 items are simply totaled and logged automatically at the end of the player's turn. For category 2 items, it seems an event based flag would be helpful. I have set up the Main PTL 'bar' with Rufrydyr's icon on the left side. I have created a PTL Event Flag that triggers the icon to start blinking, indicating there is a pending event that needs a note. The player clicks the blinking icon and the form pops up to indicate the event (all of the relevant automatically generated info) and provide the text field for the note. I had the goody hut event triggering the note form, but it was obstructing the game screen and the actual result was sometimes difficult to catch and it seemed an annoying interuption. Now the PTL icon starts blinking when a goody hut event occurs. Once the event completes in the game, the user can click on the blinking PTL icon and it brings up the "Goody Hut at X,Y resulted in" form. I think this works for changes to the sliders too - the player may be adjusting the slider back and forth checking gold totals/ turns to complete and would not enjoy the "explain slider change" form popping up to block your view - the PTL Icon just starts flashing when the change is determined.

As far as unit action notes - how often are explanatory notes used to accompany unit actions? I have the flag that indicates the active unit in the game. What if I provide a 'Log Unit Action' button that will place a watch on that active unit. The player then performs the moves/worker action and when the unit loses the active flag, then pop up the note form? That seems a good way to control which important moves are included in the main log. (BTW, I intend to have an option to log all unit moves to a separate text log (CSV) that a spreadsheet could easily filter to a unit and track it's movements through the game).

As far as the items I don't have located in memory yet - I have created a 'Data' form which contains all of the info that is read from memory. I have the place holders for Contacts, Embassies and Technologies known, etc. and their 'state' can be altered by the user. This will act as the bandaid until I can track those remaining items down in memory space. The user toggling those settings will create the PTL Event and the appropriate note form will appear (i.e. User toggles contact with Romans - initiates event that pops up the form for 'trade' details).

I have rambled a bit, but hopefully this creates a starting point for everyone to be thinking about how the PTL interface should be HELPFUL and not an annoyance. Back to programming - I'll check back... ;)
 
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