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Ideas for expansion pack (or mod) to make Civ V "perfect"

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by TDawg3, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. TDawg3

    TDawg3 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
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    I'm a lifelong Civ player going all the way back to Civ I and, for me, this franchise and what it tries to model is the best game of all time. That said, like alot of people, I was underwhelmed and, frankly, disappointed when I played my first game of Civ 5. It seemed very watered down and lacked the "depth" that has always made Civilization thee game. The graphics and everything were terrific, but the game play seemed boring. I read a post on here that tried to explain CivV vs CivIV from a physiological perspective (i.e. dopamine release) and how every turn mattered more in CivIV and the computer AI was more aggressive and smarter. In CivV, the computer doesn't even bother to colonize other continents or develop navies it seems.

    Anyway, since the last patch the gameplay seems improved and there's some promising modpacks out there that make the game more interesting and much better, but I'd still love to see the following aspects re-integrated into CivV to make the game more multi-dimensional and funner on more levels:

    * Replace "social policies" with "government laws" ... it seems weird not to have governments. It makes more sense to pick government types and within those adopt laws that yield various benefits (and/or penalties). The social policies screen is great and so could work well for picking laws within different categories (economic, social, military, education, etc.). There should be lots of possible laws to choose from (maybe 10-20 instead of the 5 or so currently available under each social policy category) and require much less "legislation points" to unlock them than the current cultural points required to unlock social policies. I do like the idea that they're branched, though, and certain laws could only be picked if certain pre-requisite laws were previously unlocked at some point as well as some laws could only be unlocked after a certain age and/or tech was reached.

    * Culture should work more like it did in CivIV ... that is, instead of leading to social policies (which should be changed to government laws) culture should impact borders, causing them to sway back and forth between players and even cities can be swayed to switch civilizations if culture is influential enough; also, even though culture wouldn't be used to directly adopt social policies, extra culture points could be
    "spent" on legislation points for a penalty (say, trade-in 50 culture points for 25 legislation points that could be used to 'hurry' a new law, for example)

    * Bring back religion ... how can there not be religions? I liked how CivIV had different religions available but instead of treating them like a tech that you research, have them be discovered or revealed via "ruins" (ancient religions) or "holy resource icons" (modern religions). For more modern religions, certain techs would have to be known to see the holy resource icons (but don't make it just a matter of researching a tech to gain a religion like CivIV). Depending on the age you're in, resource bonuses would be gained by building improvements on the sacred location (tent > temple > church > cathedral > megachurch) each with progressively more happiness, coin, and culture points. Also, you should be able to build priests and evangelicals that can spread your religion to other cities within your empire as well as outside (with open borders, until internet is researched in which case even closed borders would not defend from it) whereby the more cities that have a church for your religion the more happiness, coin, and culture you earn. But, be careful, there should be "skeptics" that other nations could buy (with the right tech) to counter your religion you spread that leads to diplomacy penalties. Conversely, you could build/buy skeptic units and station them in your cities to protect against foreign religious influences. You could earn a science bonus for every foreign cleric they intercept. Finally, like culture, religion points produced from your religious buildings and units could be converted and spent on legislation points. They could also be spent to improve relations with other nations that endorse your religion(s). Though, only have about 10 based religions to go around. Don't make there be so many like CivIV. Make it so it might - or might not - be ok for multiple players to share the same religion(s) as well as a happiness penalty for a nation that has too many itself.

    * Bring back health points ... just like CivIV ... sigh ... required for growth

    * Bring back corporations ... similar to how CivIV did it and similar to the religious concept above; could only operate within open borders, granting production and coin bonuses, but decrease health through pollution; corporations can produce more legislation points with lobbyist units

    * Make the computer AI smarter when it comes to battles. It seems like they just move around "randomly" with no purpose :)
     
  2. TDawg3

    TDawg3 Chieftain

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    Oh yeah, make there many more technologies ... so many in fact that you couldn't possibly discover them all and so many that you should be able to research multiple ones at the same time. Say, one per university you own. Until then, one at a time, but once you reach that point, then one tech per university built. And, if you build Internet wonder, then you can research an extra +2 simultaneously

    To counter this, the more religion points per turn you have the less science points per turn you get. They should balance each other and be able to lead to two divergent ways to win the game.

    It goes without saying that with more technologies, there'd be many more buildings and units to pick from.

    Also, back to governments, there should be more government buildings besides just courthouses and be government units (bureaucrats) that produce more coin, but decrease happiness.

    Lastly, I know espionage was quirky in CivIV, but there has to be some form of espionage units and buildings in CivV that could be used to steal technologies, disrupt and/or influence opponent government laws, and protect against these things. There should be foreign intelligence/spy points that can be accumulated and spent on stealth missions like in CivIv, but make it more compelling. In CivIV it seemed that everything cost too many espionage points to even bother trying or pursuing. You could even use these intelligence points as a way to "scramble" opponents' scores. The lower your intelligence points for an opponent, the less "accurate" the score the game shows for them. I've always found it weird that you could so much about everybody else through their score. You should only know somebody's score is accurate if you have gained enough intelligence points for them. This would make the end game much more exciting - and make espionage much more important towards the end - if you didn't really know the true scores with a high degree accuracy for somebody(s) without enough intelligence points.
     
  3. Moss

    Moss CFC Scribe Retired Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas and Suggestions. :)
     
  4. aatami

    aatami Kuruth Urfarah, kuruth!

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    Nea for government laws instead of social policies...
     
  5. ArataWata11

    ArataWata11 Chieftain

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    government laws similar to CIV civic is very unlikely to see a come back in any CiV expansion since Social policy is core part of the CiV similarly to culture and health as CiV had dramatically change culture and health functions. they totally removed health as the reason for city growth.

    However, in cases of Religion and corporation may reintroduce it, but still rate it 50-50 chances of come back.
     
  6. Terrance888

    Terrance888 Discord Reigns

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    Change social policies so that you have both policies and civics. Civics are your actual government, while policies are enacted by an government for a specific goal.

    Civic: City states, Democratic, Communist, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Religion, State Religion X, Ways to worship and relation to government, ways the government interacts with economics

    Policies: Tax Cuts, No child Left Behind, Freedom for serfs, Proproganda, short term boasts that help the government, represent a focus for the government in a certain area. (so economic section focuses on tax cuts with the civic Free market, while the religious policies focus on renewed faith with a Great Awakening under Organized Religion)

    In short, policies will be short term, 10-50 turn boasts in a certain area, and each boast has further unlockable areas to increase duration or power.

    Civics are your government, and how it affects your civilization on the long term.
     
  7. Namaspamus

    Namaspamus Warlord

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    ^^^
    Agree we could have both.

    Policy trees could be divided in two parts: the first policies could be run under any government and wouldn't be exclusive with any other trees. Then at the middle of the tree there is a government form or civic you can unlock. From there new policies or laws can be developed, and those could only be run under this government.
     
  8. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    RE: government laws. If you simply changed the name 'social policies' to 'government laws', the problem the OP has (i.e. you don't have a government) would be solved. I see no reason to greatly the system itself. I also like the fact that culture is related to this (and it still is related to borders), so I wouldn't really want that changed, either.
     
  9. Jakt

    Jakt Chieftain

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    Religions are so very important to a civilization's lasting legacy. I'd suggest reintroducing religion, but disagree with awarding the founding of a religion to the civ that discovers a tech first.

    Instead, each major civilization has one central religion randomly assigned to it, and it's up to the civ leader to make it a priority (or not) to spread that religion internally and abroad. The strength of a nation's religion in a city, at least up to the modern era, could modify the period of unrest following capture of a city.
     
  10. TDawg3

    TDawg3 Chieftain

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    Terrance888 articulates better what I had in mind. There should be short term concrete "laws" that could be unlocked that grant temporary pros (and cons) in addition to longer term "policies". Both should be influenced, or earned, by accumulating and/or exchanging culture, religion, and corporation "lobby" points.

    Jakt, I agree, religion isn't something you would "research" per say and then suddenly acquire (like it is in CivIV), but rather something that must be discovered in the map via ruins and then you can adopt and spread. In more modern religions, certain ages or techs would need to be researched to even *reveal* newer religion's ruins/holy tile (i.e. similar to how oil, uranium, etc. show up at some point). The sacred spot (unique to one tile in the world per religion) would grant culture, coin, and religion points. Land "improvements" in the form of a tent (ancient) or shrine (mediveal) could then be built on the tile to give bonus points. Also, once such an improvement was built within your cultural borders such that you had "access" to the "resource", your could build various units, buildings, etc. to gain more culture, coin, and religion points, etc.
     
  11. SpearMan153

    SpearMan153 Prince

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    I like the SP system in that it represents your civ's cultural focus/values. A combined SP/Civics sytem might work.

    You could unlock certain civics as you progress through the various SP trees. You then get to pick and choose from your unlocked civics. So you retain your SP bonuses but you government type can change as strategy dictates.

    the tricky part is working out what the civics advantages/disadvantages are and balancing and integrating them with the SP system as a coherent whole.

    threads on religion that may be of interest:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=409623
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=375104
     

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