Ideas for New Civ Traits

[DynamicSpirit]

Originally Posted by gettingfat
Diplomatic (revised, or may call charismatic): Other civs attacking the civ of this leader will receive -1 happiness penalty in each of their cities. The penalty become -2 happiness when there is open-border. With mass media an additional -1 penalty applies. Result of goodie huts as if one level of difficulty lower.

Opposite problem of what you had before. This wouldn't work in single player, because the AI probably couldn't adjust its play properly.

Eh? I don't get that. I'd have thought it'd be very easy to have code in which the AI calculates the loss to its economy resulting from -x happiness, and throws that into its estimate of the merits of going to war with you. There'd probably need to be some 'fudge factor' put in by the game programmers to convert that to 'benefit of going to war', but I'd imagine there's something like that already in the AI coding. (That's certainly how I'd have written it).

 

[Zombie69]

If the AI already takes into account the loss of 1 happiness resource by going to war with a civ they trade it from, then yes it would be easy to code. Otherwise i'm not sure it could fit anywhere in the existing code. I tend not to be too optimistic about how companies code AIs in games, because they tend to do a very bad job of it. Therefore i'm not sure Firaxis could apply this at all. If they can though, sure it could be interesting. I'd make it +2 unhappiness by default though. The extra penalty for open borders is useless because it's too easy to cancel this deal just before going to war to avoid the penalty.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If the AI already takes into account the loss of 1 happiness resource by going to war with a civ they trade it from, then yes it would be easy to code. Otherwise i'm not sure it could fit anywhere in the existing code. I tend not to be too optimistic about how companies code AIs in games, because they tend to do a very bad job of it. Therefore i'm not sure Firaxis could apply this at all. If they can though, sure it could be interesting.

Yeah, I can see the point. I have to admit that looking through some of the XML files for the game I do get the impression a lot of the AI - at least in the economic aspect - is just based on probabilities weighted according to leader characteristics (eg. what tech to research, when to declare open borders). I'm hoping there's a lot more to the AI than that, that isn't visible through the XML, but I'm not too optimistic.

I'd make it +2 unhappiness by default though. The extra penalty for open borders is useless because it's too easy to cancel this deal just before going to war to avoid the penalty.

Agreed. Though the workaround is simple - just say the penalty applies if you have had open borders any time within the X turns before going to war.

 

[Zombie69]

No, i thought about that too (X turns), but again it's too easy to work around. Better to make it +2 all around. That's if the AI can handle it, of course.

 

[thenooblet22]

Where did you get this from anyway? Alphabet in Civ4 enables technology training. A diplomatic civ should be able to trade technologies before they research alphabet.

Once again, I am not arguing against technology trading for the Diplomatic trait. I simply do not want a civilization to recieve an alphabetical system because the leader is Diplomatic. If a civilization had the Alphabet at 4000 B.C., isn't it logical that they recieve Writing as well? Why alter the entire scientific tree so that the Diplomatic leaders the Alphabet as bonus? It makes no sense to me.


To make my point clear:

Technology trading okay
Recieving the Alphabet bad

 

[gettingfat]

No, i thought about that too (X turns), but again it's too easy to work around. Better to make it +2 all around. That's if the AI can handle it, of course.

Oh, I forget open-border is automatically canceled if you attack. Make it +2 unhappiness to opponents who attack (no such bonus if the diplomatic leader is the aggressor). +1 unhappiness with mass media. Bonus applies to the alliance member(s).

If this can be coded, a diplomatic/creative leader will likely be the most annoying enemy you'd find (keep popping cities right outside your border to take away your resources with its strong culture, but you can't afford to attack this hypocrite who pretends to be a peace-lover)

And personally I like my Nomadic trait more. A civ that can constantly shift its capital (and Forbidden place) at low cost and get a bit more from pillaging will really suit those horse-riding leaders. Combined it with aggressive trait it will more precisely fit Gheghis Khan and Attila (if they want Hungary in the expansion), and maybe Viking well.

 

[Ih8backstabbers]

I always wanted a Scientific trait, but the one on the first post is just like philosiful, maybe it can give you a free tech everytime you enter a new era (5 new techs)