Ideology Civics

[civ_king]

Please keep in mind that Ideologies are very hard to do. What I did with these civics was some over-generalization, purposefully. You know the political compass (I assume you do from your sig), I didn't just want to implement the compass into civ, because that would have meant 2 new civic trees instead of one. So, I tried to merge the two spectrums the best I could. I realize that Neoconservatives have caused some harm to education and Libertarians are a recent development. But I really can't dynamically show the two political spectrums well, It is more of a diagonal line, if you will, across the political spectrum, with Objectivism at 10,-10 and Socialism at -10,10. It isn't perfect, but we're playing a fictional game, with arbitrary (and sometimes silly) rules, so I have to compromise. I you really strongly feel my civics are poorly constructed, by all means, create your own. That's why we mod.

To summarize that paragraph, I basically said "I'm not changing anything."

that makes much more sense, thanks for the explanation

 

[hodarkovckij]

Instead of you of minifashions will clash with mod which adds a unique building for each form of government and ideology? With I mean the conflict with Modular Civic Buildings for Rise of Mankind 2.71 by generalstaff.

 

[Afforess]

Instead of you of minifashions will clash with mod which adds a unique building for each form of government and ideology? With I mean the conflict with Modular Civic Buildings for Rise of Mankind 2.71 by generalstaff.

No, my entire goal in modding has been to make everything compatible. I foresee no problems using the two.

 

[Ilegal]

Well well, im trying to creat a new Civics board .
Your Mods have alot of Civics based on Marx's ideal, that inpired me very much. So i thought i can make a Civics board based on Marx's dialectical materialism and historical materialism ^^. I dont think Marxism can fit this game well, but ill try to do the best to make this game more Marxism and deep ^^.

I created 7 Civics group now
Government
Labor
Economic
Society
Education
Religion
Military

and there are civics in groups
Government ==> focus on how you organize the cities and your empire, and its include the political issue.
1 Tribalism
2 Despotism
3 Republic
4 Monarchy
5 Democracy
6 Soviet
7 Facism
8 Socialism

Labor ==> how your empire product all things.
1 Commune
2 Allocated
3 Servitude
4 Land Rent
5 Contraction
6 Emancipation
7 Volunteer
8 Collective

Economic ==> how you can trade and distribute.
1 Self-Supporting
2 Barter
3 Monetary
4 Feudal
5 Mercantilism
6 Free Market
7 Corporation
8 Planned

Society ==> man-man relation.
1 Tribal
2 Caste
3 Slavery
4 Serfdom
5 Bourgeois
6 Proletariat
7 Nationalism
8 Internationalism

Education ==> it will be very fun
1 Ignorance
2 Unpromted
3 Militaristic
4 Apprentice
5 School
6 University
7 State Subsidization
8 Socialize

Religion ==> regilion of course ^^.
1 Paganism
2 Shamanism
3 Organized Religion
4 Theocracy
5 Pacifism
6 Free Religion
7 Secularism
8 Antitheism

Military ==> wavering about it. But it may be important ^^.
1 Chiefdom
2 Recuitment
3 Professional
4 Feudal Lord
5 Imperialism
6 Duty
7 People Army
8 Peace Embracement

Oh, and first, i have some questions, plz help me ^^.
-I want to know how you can decreast cost of buildings with your civics ?? I check the Civic XML many times, but i didnt see any things about it .

-Can we decreast cost of Units like buildings ?? And can we have some type of Units like caravan, but can hurry production in a city (call them Builders).

-Can each Civics have 1 unique building ? Like Slave market only can build in Slavery ?.

Thx you very much, and srry for my bad English .

 

[Afforess]

Well well, im trying to creat a new Civics board .
Your Mods have alot of Civics based on Marx's ideal, that inpired me very much. So i thought i can make a Civics board based on Marx's dialectical materialism and historical materialism ^^. I dont think Marxism can fit this game well, but ill try to do the best to make this game more Marxism and deep ^^.

I didn't really aim for marxism. I just wanted more realism.

I created 7 Civics group now
Government
Labor
Economic
Society
Education
Religion
Military

and there are civics in groups
Government ==> focus on how you organize the cities and your empire, and its include the political issue.
1 Tribalism
2 Despotism
3 Republic
4 Monarchy
5 Democracy
6 Soviet
7 Facism
8 Socialism

Labor ==> how your empire product all things.
1 Commune
2 Allocated
3 Servitude
4 Land Rent
5 Contraction
6 Emancipation
7 Volunteer
8 Collective

Economic ==> how you can trade and distribute.
1 Self-Supporting
2 Barter
3 Monetary
4 Feudal
5 Mercantilism
6 Free Market
7 Corporation
8 Planned

Society ==> man-man relation.
1 Tribal
2 Caste
3 Slavery
4 Serfdom
5 Bourgeois
6 Proletariat
7 Nationalism
8 Internationalism

Education ==> it will be very fun
1 Ignorance
2 Unpromted
3 Militaristic
4 Apprentice
5 School
6 University
7 State Subsidization
8 Socialize

Religion ==> regilion of course ^^.
1 Paganism
2 Shamanism
3 Organized Religion
4 Theocracy
5 Pacifism
6 Free Religion
7 Secularism
8 Antitheism


Military ==> wavering about it. But it may be important ^^.
1 Chiefdom
2 Recuitment
3 Professional
4 Feudal Lord
5 Imperialism
6 Duty
7 People Army
8 Peace Embracement

Hmm.. Some of those things I forgot about.

I myself had issues with the current civic system. I just don't think they make sense. I month ago, I had plans to completely rewrite Rom's civics, but I could never get attitude modifiers to work, so my plans, although completely written, just kinda got forgotten.

Everyone can see what I was going to do here. I decided civics were silly, and to rename them Departments or Ministries, depending on your region, and add alot more options, like real countries have.

Oh, and first, i have some questions, plz help me ^^.
-I want to know how you can decreast cost of buildings with your civics ?? I check the Civic XML many times, but i didnt see any things about it .

-Can we decreast cost of Units like buildings ?? And can we have some type of Units like caravan, but can hurry production in a city (call them Builders).

-Can each Civics have 1 unique building ? Like Slave market only can build in Slavery ?.

Thx you very much, and srry for my bad English

That isn't done in the XML, you have to use python for that, but yes, you can do all of that.

 

[Ilegal]

wow, but i dont know how to use python :|. Seem i have to leartn somethings first ^^.

 

[JaeChunDaeSung]

I wondered, would blending this in with the Rev Mod (+/- local/national rebelliousness) be to great of an addition? This is already incredible in and of itself, but I thought about whether or not this would complicate or benefit, seeing as how...

Free Enterprise, Egalitarian, Progressive, and Socialist would theoretically decrease rebelliousness to varying degrees while Individuality and Objectivism increase it. Again, this is a just a thought, but any thoughts from you Afforess?

 

[Afforess]

Free Enterprise, Egalitarian, Progressive, and Socialist would theoretically decrease rebelliousness to varying degrees while Individuality and Objectivism increase it. Again, this is a just a thought, but any thoughts from you Afforess?

Nope. I will not add that. Before you get offended, here's why:

If I added that, I would be conclusively stating that Objectivism = Bad, Socialism = Good. But players of all ideologies play, so I'm not going to force a political viewpoint onto them. I did, however, try to make the civics as representative as possible of the options available.

 

[Stratofortress]

Why can Objectivism draft, shouldn't it be so that Socialism can draft?

 

[Afforess]

Why can Objectivism draft, shouldn't it be so that Socialism can draft?

Hmm. I suppose my reasoning is flawed there. I will update it.

 

[JaeChunDaeSung]

If I added that, I would be conclusively stating that Objectivism = Bad, Socialism = Good. But players of all ideologies play, so I'm not going to force a political viewpoint onto them. I did, however, try to make the civics as representative as possible of the options available.

None taken. I figured it wasn't added by virtue of how ambiguous or complicated it would be to define the degree (or lack) of rebelliousness in terms of politics and all.

 

[Earlydawn]

This is a little late in the game, but I have a bit of a more theoretical problem with the design then a functional one. The relationship between the state and the individual is already defined "between the lines" by the rest of the expanded Rise of Man civics. Historically, there's a strong argument for the state-populace relationship being a consequence of other structural decisions. Look at comtemporary China - previously considered a totalitarian state, now shifting towards a moderate authoritarian environment. This actually has nothing to do with the population-facing policy, be it the American Constitution or Castro's revolver in your face. It's all about articulating and enabling a different decision - already covered by something like the economy, or Welfare categories, for example.

Instead, have you considered something like Alpha Centauri's "Values" category? Imagine choosing between categories like Power (Military, Espionage, Force Projection), Wealth (Income, Trade, Corporate Advantage), Influence (Culture, Diplomacy, Religion), or Stability (Counter-Revolutionary Factors, Less Distance Penalties). By changing the paradigm of the category, players could choose to specialize towards a specific advantage, or focus on stability and be a generalist. I know this is a departure from what you're shooting for, but it doesn't have a limb in the other civic categories.

As a side-note, I absolutely love the "Department of-" mod idea, and would love to see it implemented.

 

[Afforess]

This is a little late in the game, but I have a bit of a more theoretical problem with the design then a functional one. The relationship between the state and the individual is already defined "between the lines" by the rest of the expanded Rise of Man civics. Historically, there's a strong argument for the state-populace relationship being a consequence of other structural decisions. Look at comtemporary China - previously considered a totalitarian state, now shifting towards a moderate authoritarian environment. This actually has nothing to do with the population-facing policy, be it the American Constitution or Castro's revolver in your face. It's all about articulating and enabling a different decision - already covered by something like the economy, or Welfare categories, for example.

True, very true.

However, these ideologies were made so that players could be that "benevolient dictatorship" that they always wanted to be.

Also, keep in mind that this is one of my older features. Being very old, I haven't revisited and updated it much.

As a side-note, I absolutely love the "Department of-" mod idea, and would love to see it implemented.

Thanks. I might start working on them soon.

 

[Lomion]

Was this updated for 2.81?

 

[Afforess]

Was this updated for 2.81?

Please do not dig up old threads. Check the Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn forum for details.