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If an ice cube melts in your glass does it overflow?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by playshogi, Feb 4, 2019.

  1. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    I would have much, much rather seen a health mechanic for early industrialism followed by severe weather effects (hurricanes, droughts, wildfires, blizzards, etc) rather than "rising sea levels" that will (on Civ map scale) literally wipe out hundreds of thousands of square miles. It's just not scaled properly, which is the part that bugs me. The disaster mechanics I'm loving.

    I say this as a conservative Republican that believes that the effects of man-made Global Warming are 100% being used as fear mongering, of course, which doesn't mean that they aren't real, just that the real effects are being blown up by people (cough cough Al Gore we'll all be dead by...like 10 years ago).

    Moderator Action: Please stick to the game concepts and leave the real world stuff for the Off Topic forum. leif

    Civ6 missed the boat and could have modeled REAL effects and costs of global climate change with REAL consequences for not taking action with REAL costs. Instead we'll have Florida disappear, which to me seems like a net positive.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2019
  2. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I agree it is too forgiving. Doesn't look like a lot of tiles get submerged. I would be more okay with this if you couldn't see them from the beginning. I hope they remove the tooltips actually.

    Surely the concept of gravity is settled. At least on Earth.
     
  3. Human Crouton

    Human Crouton Prince

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    Our concept of gravity changed completely just a little over 100 years ago.

    It's also the only fundamental force for which we haven't found a carrier particle. We also don't know how it applies to the quantum level at all.

    You picked the most mysterious force as you example. We've got a long way to go on gravity on every scale.
     
  4. MooFreaky

    MooFreaky Meatbag Destroyer

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    I'd like to see a more nuanced version of this. But to do it properly would be a huge disadvantage to Civs based purely on location. For example, the big concerns (and which are already happening) is close to the equator the deserts are spreading, creating giant dustbowls. Further away there is less of this, and often some areas become very fertile when they were previously snow covered; however, this often comes at the cost of serious danger of flooding. If you read reports of recommended actions by the Swedish or Canadian Governments, for example, the concerns they have for floods beyond anything we see today is real.

    It's actually horribly understood. A force so powerful it keeps you stuck to a planet, yet so weak that you can jump off the planet with ease.
    Once you get into higher stuff like general relativity it changes again from what people learn in school and you start talking about objects warping space and time, which causes gravity. So we know the effects of gravity, but we are still really trying to understand how and why it is.
     
    LoganInCamo likes this.
  5. JJOne

    JJOne Warlord

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    It's not sea ice, it's land ice in civ 6. Submarines can't pass under it.
     
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  6. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    If that's the case then there should be land left in place of the ice tiles that go away. But instead Firaxis proudly proclaimed the ability to create "NorthWest passages".
     
  7. MooFreaky

    MooFreaky Meatbag Destroyer

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    And once the ice melts there is nothing left to keep the land afloat so it sinks. It's science.
     
  8. berlin88

    berlin88 Chieftain

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    I would like to add that Solar Cycles in the sun need to be factored into Earths climate debate. If the energy output of the sun goes up, then Earth will be warmer, while if the suns energy output goes down, the Earth will be colder.

    A retired NASA space shuttle engineer wrote a book on solar cycles, and used scientific evidence, to show that solar cycles in the sun have a greater impact on the Earth, than sea levels or human activity.

    In regards to the ice sheets, the ice sheets are not shrinking, they are in fact relocating and expanding. The media likes to show pictures of the ice sheets melting and breaking apart, but they ignore areas of the planet, where the ice sheets have expanded.
     
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  9. ExemplarVoss

    ExemplarVoss Prince

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    No part of Civ scales properly. Not one. Roosevelt would be thousands of years old by the time he's born, geographical distances are laughable (can take decades to walk up a hill, but you can't fit more than 1 or 2 towns in Italy, but ranged units can shoot multiples of that decades-long distance...

    The whole game is a very, very loose ahistorical abstraction, no reason for the new feature to be different.
     
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  10. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    But a health and disaster/weather effects system with realistic effects of global climate change would have been sooooo much more interesting than "sea level rises, everyone dies."

    (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocksFallEveryoneDies)

    Sorry Dungeon Master... err.... Civilization Master, I didn't know you wanted to end the campaign.
     
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  11. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    In Fall From Heaven II (mod for Civ IV), as the civilizations f- up the world, land tiles would turn into hell terrain and demons erupt from the bowels of the Earth.

    Climate change in GS is honestly rather mild compared to that.
     
  12. Josephias

    Josephias King

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    Mmm... i was going to say recurring drougts... but if I remember correctly, they balanced them to only pillage farms
     
  13. pgm123

    pgm123 Emperor

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    My assumption is that the land ice is off map.
     
  14. JJOne

    JJOne Warlord

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    Well, I didn't hear about that. :) It's not in the game I played.
     
  15. King Rad

    King Rad Warlord

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    Sorry, Duuk. I have to disagree with your conclusion - unless you're excluding the panhandle from the portion of Florida that's disappearing. We actually refer to this area as LA anyway [Lower Alabama].
     
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  16. Inhalaattori

    Inhalaattori Emperor

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    Im pretty sure they though about changing tundra to plains/grassland, changing plain/grasslands to desert etc. I guess the problem is that we have lots of features (wonders, improvements etc.) connected to a certain terrain type and changing them during the game might cause all kinds of confusions and problems.

    I mean its not that different from a system we have now where some land tiles have possibility to change to water tiles, but these tiles are also known at the start of the game. I guess they should do the same thing with land tiles that have potential to change their terrain type to another? It might get messy. I guess its also possible that they have plans to go farther with the climate change mechanics if they are actually doing the third expansion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  17. berlin88

    berlin88 Chieftain

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    Another idea Firaxis should implement, is the ability to build coastal barriers to guard against floods and potential increases in sea level. Many of the old Hanseatic league cities in Europe simply built barriers to keep the water out, and it was way cheaper than trying to change global temperatures or reinvent how humans interact with the environment. The danger of rising sea levels to coastal communities is not knew, and history shows that ancient civilizations found cost effective ways to solve the problem. The Dutch and the Danes both built sea walls, and they have survived centuries without the coastal cities being submerged by rising tides or sea levels.

    If Florida simply built some kind of sea wall along the coast, they could easily survive the potential danger of rising sea levels, while also saving a ton of money.
     
  18. Balerune

    Balerune Prince

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    I just want to know if there is an on/off switch for this, or even better if it can be changed to the electromagnetic cancer causing as evidenced here https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer...k/radiation/electromagnetic-fields-fact-sheet . A quote: "In 2015, the European Commission Scientific Committee on Emerging and Newly Identified Health Risks reviewed electromagnetic fieldsExit Disclaimer in general, as well as cell phones in particular. It found that, overall, epidemiologic studies of extremely low frequency fields show an increased risk of childhood leukemia with estimated daily average exposures above 0.3 to 0.4 μT."
    So this should be included to replace the global warming thingie.
     
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  19. ExemplarVoss

    ExemplarVoss Prince

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    Well, since it doesn't do that, I've no idea what you're complaining about. A few pre-marked coastal tiles are lost, there is no 'everyone dies, game over' stage.
     
  20. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Or... as the climate changes, the map spawns mutated zombies (i.e. demons).

    It makes sense. Climate change leads to mutations and one of those mutations could be, you know, zombies.

    They automatically attack the civs with the lowest forest/jungle to tile ratio.

    This would make the late game AWESOME [as opposed to the late game now, which is a snorefest].
     

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