If Hitler had been captured
- Thread starter RedRalph
- Start date
alcal
surfin'
He would have been tried at Nuremberg and killed.
BEHIND_THE_MASK
A Liar... A Cheat...
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2006
- Messages
- 1,840
If captured by the Red Army?
No, I think it would be something more along the line of medieval torture humiliation and finally death!!! Id have resurrected the knot for the occasion.
alcal
surfin'
What is the purpose of this? To give the world a even worse image of Soviet Union? Stalin was crazy, but not so crazy to torture a defeated leader, even if he killed ten millions of Russians. Pragmatically, Stalin would have given Hitler to Westerns, in exchange of Berlin.
RedRalph
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2007
- Messages
- 20,708
not much of an expert on Stalin, are you. Worse image? I somehow doubt that in 1945 the USSR would have gone down in peoples estimation for anyhting it did to Hitler. If Stalin had given up Hitler he would have lasted about ten seconds before the KGB and entire communist party would have turned on him. He would have been dead before Hitler went on trial.Plus, what makes you think the allies would have been stupid enough to offer Berlin for Hitler?
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
I'm thinking something along the lines of a long, detailed trial, so that they could list every single atrocity they knew about, show all the things Hitler had done. Maybe at Nuremberg, maybe not, but the trial would have been open to the press, and foreign officials. At the end of it, Hitler would have been killed relatively humanely - after days upon days of torture, probably personally supervised by Stalin himself, then made presentable for the walk to the gallows. Huge propaganda win for the Soviets, Stalin himself, and just flat-out pleasurable for all involved - excepting Hitler, of course. hell, they might have even let a Jewish member of the party do the honours.
RedRalph
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2007
- Messages
- 20,708
That would have been great!!!! the irony would have been delicious.... a slavic, Jewish, Marxist kicking the stool...
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
How about a Slavic, Jewish, Polish, homosexual, Gypsy Marxist? I think Hitler would have died just being in the same room with one.
nonconformist
Miserable
It would have been a public hanging.
No way they would have given Hitler a trial.
Recently declassified war reports have detailed that Churchill was opposed to any trial for Hitler and would rather have just executed him.
Hitler excelled at trials, remember? Had it not been for Hitler's superb oratory and demagoguery skillls and his intense charisma during the trial after his abortive 1923 Munchen Beer Hall Putsch, the Nazi party would never have risen to the public eye and garnered such an interest of the German people.
If the Red Army had captured him? Well, I think Stalin would think much the same way, and would not allow such an opportunistic, persuasive speaker puiblicity.
After all, in his own words
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We would not let our enemy have guns, why would we let him have ideas?"
No way they would have given Hitler a trial.
Recently declassified war reports have detailed that Churchill was opposed to any trial for Hitler and would rather have just executed him.
Hitler excelled at trials, remember? Had it not been for Hitler's superb oratory and demagoguery skillls and his intense charisma during the trial after his abortive 1923 Munchen Beer Hall Putsch, the Nazi party would never have risen to the public eye and garnered such an interest of the German people.
If the Red Army had captured him? Well, I think Stalin would think much the same way, and would not allow such an opportunistic, persuasive speaker puiblicity.
After all, in his own words
"Ideas are more dangerous than guns. We would not let our enemy have guns, why would we let him have ideas?"
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Neither Churchill nor Stalin was the one with the power though. Roosevelt was. Stalin wanted aid, and Roosevelt would have wanted a trial. In order to attempt to get aid, and for propaganda purposes, Stalin would have gone ahead with a trial. And just because a trial is open to the press, doesn't mean that the press will actually be allowed to report on things factually.
I agree with you on the means of execution.
I agree with you on the means of execution.
I guess they would have tried to crack him at first. He would have been potentially very valuable, as he no doubt knew lots of dirt about Western Allies, as well as other things.
Then - either hanged after "closed trial", or possibly "unexpected death caused by pneumonia" or smth along these lines. No public trial - I agree with nonconformist here.
And this entire "public torture by Stalin" idea is beyond silly. Seriously.
Then - either hanged after "closed trial", or possibly "unexpected death caused by pneumonia" or smth along these lines. No public trial - I agree with nonconformist here.
And this entire "public torture by Stalin" idea is beyond silly. Seriously.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
That's a very good point Yeekim. Cracking Hitler would have provided an incredible wealth of information.
RedRalph
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2007
- Messages
- 20,708
Sorry, where does this idea that Stalin would do anyhting at all for western aid come in to play? Can you give me examples of him honouring any commitment made to anyone if it didnt serve his purposes? If he wouldnt allow free elections in Poland to keep the west sweet you better believe he wouldnt have turned a man who had just killed 28m Soviet citizens over to the west to satisfy American desire for a trial.
And its wrong to say Roosevelt was the one with all the power, aside from not being alive (somewhat of a drawback when it came to influencing events), the de facto situation greatly favoured the soviets. what would the Americans have done if they wouldnt hand him over? Punish the USSR to protect Hitler's rights? I doubt it. Your average American would have been disgusted at that, remember at this stage Stalin was still "Uncle Joe", and would have been percived to have carte blanche over Hitler if the Red Army had captured him.
Neonanocyborgasm
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 4,695
He would be slowly tortured in a KGB dungeon until he was suddenly "found dead" later.
mr_lewington
King
Wouldn't there be the possibility that if was found by the Red Army and not SMERSH or the NKVD, he would be unceremoniously killed by drunken footsoldiers?
I think that Stalin would used him to propaganda and hang him. What surprised me was mentioned claim here that Stalin hadnt power to do it. I perceive it much differently, Stalin had superior power in comparision with Churchill and Roosevelt. I would even say say that he dictated what allies had to do and they realy did it.
sydhe
King of Kongs
A quick public execution, either by hanging or more probably by firing squad.
privatehudson
The Ultimate Badass
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2003
- Messages
- 4,821
Some people seem to be assuming that Stalin would actually tell anyone that he had captured Hitler alive.
Stalin was extremely interested in all aspects of Hitler's life and mannerisms and wanted as much information as possible on him. In the real history he had a specially selected Smersh team interrogate everyone they could get their hands on who had been in the bunker near the end, and went over every inch of the bunker. At first Stalin/Smersh refused to believe that Hitler had committed suicide (the bodies of Hitler and Eva Hitler weren't found until 5th May). Stalin even sent a special NKVD general down to re-run the interrogations and report back after each. There was intense security thrown up around these operations, not even Zhukov was allowed down into the bunker. Officers were severely reprimanded for allowing ordinary soldiers to view the Goebbels remains. Even when the bodies of the Hitlers were found orders came down that this was to be kept secret, Zhukov was apparently quite annoyed when he finally found out 2 decades later.
Its not simply a case therefore that capturing Hitler would automatically lead to a trial or debate amongst the allies as to his fate. It would largely depend on whether Stalin felt he could score more points off the west from the trial than he could by insinuating that the west was still harbouring him.
Having said that however there's not much chance that Hitler would allow himself to be captured after he'd learnt what happened to Mussolini. Unless there was some form of coup in the bunker that turned him over to the Soviets the chances of him voluntarily surrendering to any of the allies were very slim.
Stalin was extremely interested in all aspects of Hitler's life and mannerisms and wanted as much information as possible on him. In the real history he had a specially selected Smersh team interrogate everyone they could get their hands on who had been in the bunker near the end, and went over every inch of the bunker. At first Stalin/Smersh refused to believe that Hitler had committed suicide (the bodies of Hitler and Eva Hitler weren't found until 5th May). Stalin even sent a special NKVD general down to re-run the interrogations and report back after each. There was intense security thrown up around these operations, not even Zhukov was allowed down into the bunker. Officers were severely reprimanded for allowing ordinary soldiers to view the Goebbels remains. Even when the bodies of the Hitlers were found orders came down that this was to be kept secret, Zhukov was apparently quite annoyed when he finally found out 2 decades later.
Its not simply a case therefore that capturing Hitler would automatically lead to a trial or debate amongst the allies as to his fate. It would largely depend on whether Stalin felt he could score more points off the west from the trial than he could by insinuating that the west was still harbouring him.
Having said that however there's not much chance that Hitler would allow himself to be captured after he'd learnt what happened to Mussolini. Unless there was some form of coup in the bunker that turned him over to the Soviets the chances of him voluntarily surrendering to any of the allies were very slim.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
A show trial of Hitler would have served his purposes. I don't recall too many examples of Churchill, Roosevelt/ Truman, or for that matter any other leaders honouring their commitments when it didn't suit their purposes. And I don't believe for a second he'd hand Hitler over to the West. I'm convinced such a trial would take place in Moscow.
And Stalin had all the power on the ground, yes, but Russia's industry was in tatters, its economy ruined. The US was the dominant power on the planet at this time. It was never bombed, lost less than half a million people, its economy was actually better after the war, it had the largest air force and navy on the planet at the time, it was nearing completion of the atomic bomb... America was far more powerful in 1945 than it was in 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed and it became the world's only superpower. It was already the world's only superpower in 45, people just didn't realise that Britain was broke and the USSR exhausted.
Russia tried for a long time to get American aid after the war, and only rejected it when it became obvious that the Marshall Plan was pure economic blackmail for a socialist state. Asking Stalin to open up the Iron Curtain to free enterprise would be the equivalent of asking Truman to nationalise his industries. It was an insult, and Molotov perceived it as such.
And I was under the impression that Roosevelt was still alive when the war in Europe ended. If I'm wrong, there's less chance of what I stated earlier happening, because Truman was a foreign affairs novice, who managed to personally offend the Soviet Foreign Minister by outright threatening him in their first meeting. Stupid.
Similar threads
- Locked
