If humans are a product of evolution...

[Berzerker]

So who is doing the pretending? The people who believe race exists or the ones who dont?

edit: I mean, if I call someone a racist and I dont believe race exists, I got a problem with my logic.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Well I can call someone a religious zealot without believing in God.

Of course, if the religious zealot in question is Muslim then I'm racist, but that's another matter entirely.

 

[Cutlass]

So who is doing the pretending? The people who believe race exists or the ones who dont?

edit: I mean, if I call someone a racist and I dont believe race exists, I got a problem with my logic.

You call a person a racist when that person is pretending race exists, and you know that it is a pointless distinction.

 

[civver_764]

Racism is pretending that race does exist, that it matters,

The opposite is also racist.

Of course, if the religious zealot in question is Muslim then I'm racist, but that's another matter entirely.

Actually even pointing this out makes you a racist.

if races dont exist what is racism?

Racism is the state of being White.

 

[Cutlass]

The opposite is also racist.

Trying to misdirect the issue to make your own racism seem normal just makes you look small and petty.

Moderator Action: Please do not call other members "racist". If you feel the content they posted is racist in nature, please report it. Thank you. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Berzerker]

Well I can call someone a religious zealot without believing in God.

But you wouldn't deny religion exists.

Eh, I might not be grasping your point too securely

Racism is the state of being White.

Seems to me most racism stems from historical ethnic clashes with both victims and victors harboring ill will toward the other. But I cant understand why eg white people would hate black people after what white people did to them, but I can understand why black people would hate white people. Maybe its a form of projection, whites know blacks have cause to be mad and therefore assume they are and fart in our general direction.

You call a person a racist when that person is pretending race exists, and you know that it is a pointless distinction.

Aren't you re-enforcing racism by using the term as if race does exist?

 

[Cutlass]

Aren't you re-enforcing racism by using the term as if race does exist?

Doesn't work that way.

 

[civver_764]

Trying to misdirect the issue to make your own racism seem normal just makes you look small and petty.

You think you can hide your racism by calling me a racist? Nice try, bigot.

Moderator Action: Do not troll other members, and be mindful of what you post. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

But I cant understand why eg white people would hate black people

I'm just speculating here but it probably has something to do with all the murdering, raping, robbery, and being a general drain on the economy.

after what white people did to them, but I can understand why black people would hate white people.

Yeah us evil white people really did a number on them, what with freeing them from slavery, giving them citizenship and voting rights in our countries, and giving them billions of dollars a year in free money.

 

[Cutlass]

You think you can hide your racism by calling me a racist? Nice try, bigot.

And who am I allegedly bigoted against?

 

[NinjaCow64]

Race does exist, however not in the way that many people think.

As @El_Machinae said, race is a social construct. It has no basis in biology. Believing in these so-called "biological differences" between races is very racist.

Yeah us evil white people really did a number on them, what with freeing them from slavery, giving them citizenship and voting rights in our countries, and giving them billions of dollars a year in free money.

White people enslaved them, denied them citizenship and voting rights in the first place. If I hurt you then drove you to a hospital I wouldn't be doing you a favour.

 

[civver_764]

White people enslaved them,

Their own people enslaved them, and to this day they are still enslaving each other. All of the descendants black people brought to America are much better off than the descendants of those left behind.

denied them citizenship and voting rights in the first place.

They weren't entitled to these things in the first place.

Moderator Action: You are skating very close to inappropriate content here. You've been warned once today already. --LM
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[NinjaCow64]

Their own people enslaved them, and to this day they are still enslaving each other.

That's a completely disingenuous argument. Slavery was and is a global phenomenon. Slavery to some extent exists in every country, even today. Read the Wikipedia page on modern slavery.

All of the descendants black people brought to America are much better off than the descendants of those left behind.

So do you think that the enslavement of people was a good thing if it benefits their ancestors descendants?

They weren't entitled to these things in the first place.

Why not?

EDIT: Got ancestors and descendants mixed up.

 

[Perfection]

Their own people enslaved them, and to this day they are still enslaving each other. All of the descendants black people brought to America are much better off than the descendants of those left behind.

Are you defending slavery?

They weren't entitled to these things in the first place.

How the heck do you justify that?

 

[civver_764]

So do you think that the enslavement of people was a good thing if it benefits their ancestors?

Well it was certainly a good thing for them.

Why not?

By definition, citizenship is a privilege.

 

[Perfection]

By definition, citizenship is a privilege.

What definition?

 

[civver_764]

What definition?

The definition of citizen. If everyone is a citizen, then there are no citizens.

 

[Perfection]

The definition of citizen. If everyone is a citizen, then there are no citizens.

According to Wikipedia:

Citizenship is the status of a person recognized under the custom or law as being a legal member of a sovereign state or part of a nation.

I don't see how any of what you said follows from that definition.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Well it was certainly a good thing for them.

Answer the question, don't sidestep.

 

[Berzerker]

I'm just speculating here but it probably has something to do with all the murdering, raping, robbery, and being a general drain on the economy.

Yeah us evil white people really did a number on them, what with freeing them from slavery, giving them citizenship and voting rights in our countries, and giving them billions of dollars a year in free money.

We did and we're still doing a number on them. We replaced slavery with Jim Crow and the KKK and added a drug war to top it all off... Now if we spent a half century waging a drug war in upper class white neighborhoods and were carting their kids off to prison, I'd think those neighborhoods would be headed downhill. So looking at crime statistics in this context is problematic, making popular activities - drug use- illegal and focusing your extremely punitive response on certain neighborhoods condemns the people who live there to a 'war'zone.

How many black folk were responsible for the crime waves in NYC and Chicago during the Roaring Twenties? Those were white people waging a drug war on other white people, did crime go up? Hell yeah, homicide rates doubled (even more in cities), money poured into the coffers of gangsters, and we aint done much since to solve the problem other than repealing the prohibition of booze. And when we did repeal prohibition, the homicide rate dropped 13 years in a row to half the level under prohibition.

Unfortunately we just shifted from booze to other drugs, dont matter what they are, we need an excuse for continuing our war on black people, slavery, Jim Crow, drug wars, we've been terrorizing black people for centuries. The most murderous regimes of the 20th century were white and asian, true? I dont think we can point fingers at black people.

 

[civver_764]

According to Wikipedia:

Citizenship is the status of a person recognized under the custom or law as being a legal member of a sovereign state or part of a nation.

I don't see how any of what you said follows from that definition.

To be a citizen means that a nation has to make you a citizen. If everyone was entitled to be a citizen simply by virtue of being human then you would cease to have a nation.

Answer the question, don't sidestep.

It depends on your frame of reference.

To a black person living in America slavery was a definitely a good thing. As a result, they get the benefit of living in a nice, first-world country. I doubt any of them would have rather been born in Africa. And I doubt many of them are dying to move there.

To a white person living in America slavery was a terrible thing. It has been used to gaslight and make us hate ourselves. We fought a brutal civil war which we still feel the effects of to this day. And we now have a racial minority in our country which is taught to hate us.

Believe me, I would much rather American slavery never happened.