(If its possible)Should the results of election polls be hidden until voting ends?

[Skipper1989]

I posted briefly in another thread how I felt that sometimes people were influenced in the way they voted because the results for polls are always viewable.

For example:

Option A- 10 votes
Option B- 2 votes
Option C- 3 votes

omeone who is initially in favour of B or C logs on and sees the result. It may lead them into thinking that the result is alerady a foregone conclusion so that they either don't bother voting, or just vote for Option A. As you can see from this example, even if as few people as 8 or 9 did this, the result of the poll would be dramatically biased all because Option A was the most popular vote early on.

I therefore wonder if there would be any interest in an Electoral Reform Act which would slightly alter the Election Act of 4000 BC:

“Citizen's Initiative - The Election Act of 4000 BC

Section 1 - Elections
Conducting the affairs of Government in our system requires periodic elections. These elections allow citizen to chose their leaders based on their personalities, views and stated goals.

Terms of office will run from the first of the month to the last day of the same month, using GMT time. If the first term starts in the middle of a month, that term will not end until the last day of the subsequent month. No citizen can be elected to the same office in more than two consecutive terms.

Elections will be conducted by the official in charge of Election (called the EO). The EO will create nomination threads for each elected office, plus the Designated Player poll, 7 days prior to the end of the current term. After 3 days, the EO will post voting polls, one for each contested office, listing each candidate that has accepted their nomination in order of acceptance. These polls will be marked private, single-choice, and will be set to expire in 3 days. The results of said poll will not be viewable until the expiration date so as not to influence the electorate.”

I have highlighted the only amendment that would be neccessary.

I'm looking forward to hearing arguments for both sides.

Skipper

NB-An ammendment to the Constitution may also be required.

 

[grant2004]

I may be mistaken but I believe they were hidden to people who had not voted yet, I'm almost certain I didn't see the vote totals when I cast my votes, and therefore the current system seems fine to me.

If I'm wrong then yes this is a good initiative to pass, I wouldn't like polls being influenced by that factor.

 

[730195]

If your goal is to avoid influencing the electorate, would you also prohibit people posting in the poll thread a statement of how and why they voted? Would you ban discussion altogether (influence again)? I see no problem with people knowing how the vote is going. If they are easily swayed, then that's life.

 

[NKVD]

yeah dont you remember the " i just voted to see the results" options not long ago?

 

[DaveShack]

Currently, all polls have a "show results" link which works even before voting in the poll. I think we'd have to change the forum code to make that unavailable.

The "I voted here to see results" option was there for the ones who don't want to click the extra time on show results. It was meant to be a joke on those who were lazy enough to suggest that's why they vote abstain.

 

[donsig]

If this can be done then it should be done. I think for a long time many votes have been influenced by current vote totals.

 

[Skipper1989]

Currently, all polls have a "show results" link which works even before voting in the poll. I think we'd have to change the forum code to make that unavailable.

Yes I think on here it would not be possible. Dutchfire said soemthine about doing it on the other website but seen as I know literally nothing about PC code I dunno if it would be possible on there either.

 

[Hyronymus]

Yes I think on here it would not be possible. Dutchfire said soemthine about doing it on the other website but seen as I know literally nothing about PC code I dunno if it would be possible on there either.

With the proper forum software it's easy. I have experience with SMF forum software and I know it has the option to not reveal poll results until the poll ends by default.

 

[Skipper1989]

If your goal is to avoid influencing the electorate, would you also prohibit people posting in the poll thread a statement of how and why they voted? Would you ban discussion altogether (influence again)?

Firstly, I would say that the majority of people do not post how and why they voted so this does not give the same accurate picture the results of a poll do. Furthermore, discussion is merely speculation, not hard facts. During an election I could emphatically state Person A was winning but without a poll to prove this there is no evidence; merely speculation and opinion.

With the proper forum software it's easy. I have experience with SMF forum software and I know it has the option to not reveal poll results until the poll ends by default.

This then is great news. I will wait another 12-24 hours or so to allow more discussion and if there is still interest in such a reform, i'll initiate a poll.

Skipper

PS- On here I specified in elections that this is key but perhaps it should apply to all polls. Perhaps it would be best to run a trial with election polls first and then see what happens from there.

 

[Gaidynne]

Skipper,

I think you did a great job of laying out the issue for everyone to consider. However, I think that you are being a touch paternalistic.

If a voter is so weak willed that they will make their vote simply to back a winner, they why do we need to protect them from themselves. These "Sheep" should be led to slaughter. That is the natural order of things.

Nor should it be argued that concealing poll totals until the poll closes results in fairer elections. All of our Citizens should be able to vote for any option they want, no matter how silly their reasons for doing so may be. If you (or any Citizen) can't suggest a reason to vote for an option that is better than "Everyone else is voting for the other choice", then your option is pretty poor indeed.

Lets leave things as they are. Right now, we have a system that lets people vote with the maximum information available. Democracy is all about the free exchange of ideas, include the knowledge of what your fellow Citizens support. Uphold the spirit of the game, leave things alone.

Many thanks,

Gaidynne

 

[Skipper1989]

Thanks for your response Gaidynne. I do agree with mostly what you are saying and perhaps I am incorrect and people are not influenced by the poll.

However, I do think it needs to be stressed that if an option seems very unlikly of winning in a poll the majority of people will certainly think twice before backing it; some people would consider they are wasting their vote if they feel the option has no chance of winning which can lead to them not voting at all- I'm sure you would not dispute that if this is the case, we are not getting the most accurate result of what the majority wants.

"Democracy is all about the free exchange of ideas, include the knowledge of what your fellow Citizens support."

This statement is true but why should it be neccessary for you to know who someone else is voting for for you to make your decision? Surely if you need this sort of information (that encourages a herd mentality) you are no better than the "sheep"?

Just my point of view.

Thanks again for your comments.

Skipper

NB-The proposed poll for this initiative would be:

Should the results of election polls remain hidden until the voting period is over?

Yes
No
Abstain

 

[Hyronymus]

In the real world it's a hallmark of democratically fair elections to not inform the public about poll results until all poll stations have closed. It's even against the law to report poll result prior to all stations being closed in some (most?) democratic countries. Why not apply it to our polls too?

 

[Skipper1989]

It's even against the law to report poll result prior to all stations being closed in some (most?) democratic countries. Why not apply it to our polls too?

I suppose we should consider the same legality issues for us as there is a loophole that, in my draft, could be exploited. In my initial draft I proposed that the reults of the election poll would not be viewable but there would be nothing to stop someone simply opening another poll and "speculating" on results which would be viewable to all. Therefore I propose this change to my initial draft:

“Citizen's Initiative - The Election Act of 4000 BC

Section 1 - Elections
Conducting the affairs of Government in our system requires periodic elections. These elections allow citizen to chose their leaders based on their personalities, views and stated goals.

Terms of office will run from the first of the month to the last day of the same month, using GMT time. If the first term starts in the middle of a month, that term will not end until the last day of the subsequent month. No citizen can be elected to the same office in more than two consecutive terms.

Elections will be conducted by the official in charge of Election (called the EO). The EO will create nomination threads for each elected office, plus the Designated Player poll, 7 days prior to the end of the current term. After 3 days, the EO will post voting polls, one for each contested office, listing each candidate that has accepted their nomination in order of acceptance. These polls will be marked private, single-choice, and will be set to expire in 3 days. The results of said poll will not be viewable until the expiration date and it will be an offence for any citizen to set up a poll speculating on how many votes each candidate has received. Results of all elections will only be made public after the polls have closed.

 

[DaveShack]

This issue will need to be discussed by the mods, as there are some past events that we'd need to ensure that they can't be repeated. In particular, I expect we'd want any alternative voting system to be controlled by CFC userids to avoid fraud. Continued technical discussion is ok, but rule changes will need to be on hold for a bit.

 

[Skipper1989]

This issue will need to be discussed by the mods...Continued technical discussion is ok, but rule changes will need to be on hold for a bit.

Thats fair enough I suppose. Will you just post and give us the go ahead if things are ok?

 

[Skipper1989]

Any word on the rule changes?

Regards

 

[GenMarshall]

Keep them hidden. Its better that they are kept in secret. If they were open, it will lead to a lot of finger pointing on "Why did int you voted for me?!" and other hurt feelings.

Plus its an extra work load to the Demogame Mods anyway to individually change the poll options to "public poll".

 

[DaveShack]

Sorry, we were a little "preoccupied".

PMs sent.