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If you are not allow to build certain buidings...

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Tecibbar, Jan 29, 2010.

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If you are not allow to build certain buidings...

  1. No granary

    34.7%
  2. No library, market, bank.

    19.4%
  3. No courthouse, forge, barracks.

    45.8%
  1. DrakenKin

    DrakenKin Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    461
    Location:
    Montreal
    I thought at first that I would eliminate the "library, market, bank." but then I remembered how many important things they are prerequisites to. So I'd say eliminating the "courthouse, forge, barracks" is the lesser evil.

    Maybe 1 hammer per turn is a benefit, but it is not the only one. Don't forget you get also the benefit of whatever you whipped!

    If you whip a forge, you get the extra production. Assuming your city has even 4 hammers, you get a second bonus hammer on top of the "benefit" hammer + increased happiness. If you whip a library, you get the extra research and culture that much sooner. If you whip a settler you get all the benefits of an extra city x turns sooner + your own city will grow faster (since a settler halts growth). Etc.
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    25,333
    I don't recall madscientist ever contending directly with DaveMCW on the same map...did you possibly me the "food economy test" thread by obsolete where both players were forced to 8 cities on immortal? There was more strategic variance in that game than just tile improvements at play though...dave choke/cat rushed to get some of his 8 cities, but got locked in an early war that took time. I'm not sure that obs got into that fight, but he also did not have to rely on a choke kill with the quecha. These things skew the tile improvement issue quite a bit.

    Though the absolute yield of a town does tend to trump specs.
     
  3. mirthadir

    mirthadir Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2002
    Messages:
    1,194
    Whipping allows you to convert high :food: yield tiles into high :hammers: yield tiles. Working a 6 :food: tile beats any other option silly. It is pretty rare in the early game to have anywhere near as many :hammers: as food to trade out evenly. One of the massive benefits of the whip is that you get to work inherently stronger tiles for more gain.

    I've won the game on immort without ever building a lib (Giggles with an EE), I've never done the same without a grainery. At the end of the day, even if we ignore the whip - so those huge food combo tiles (like corn/fish) do nothing for you most of the early game - then we still run into the problem of actually growing up to pop 10-25. Losing some multipliers on a higher base is better than losing much of the base with higher multipliers.

    Once we look at the health benefit of the grainery, I just don't see how you can rank anything else close to it for the #1 building. I get more people working tiles, I get more whip production if I whip, and I get more health.

    Whipping without a grainery is pretty much a no-go without extremely strong tiles (e.g. in the cap) or extremely high yields (e.g. getting out that monument ASAP).

    At the end of the day I can see several strategies that involve zero use of markets, libs, and banks; with the loss of the markets/banks being far worse than losing the libs. It may be suboptimal in most cases to go without libs, markets, and banks, but it can be done and eventually you can get a perfectly efficient economy without them. I can't see any way to counteract losing a grainery - you just get to suck it up.
     

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