If you trade resources or technology to other civ

[civ_manu07]

Is that mean I lost them? (tech and resources)

what? I'm a noob and I lost my manual.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

If you have only one a particular resource left and you trade it away, yes, that means you don't have access to it until the trade deal ends. Technologies will always remain yours after you learn them.

 

[KMadCandy]

as an example: you have two sources of rice, so you trade one away and keep one for yourself. and then something makes you lose one of the rice farms: it gets pillaged, that city gets captured, or that tile is taken over by someone else's culture, whatever. in that situation, the trade deal stays in place until you cancel it, so the one that's lost is the rice you had saved for yourself. you lose the health benefits, until you notice and then remember to cancel the trade. it's very easy to not notice, since there isn't a message that you've lost a source of rice (or anything else) unless it gets pillaged.

if you have more than one source of any specific resource, there's no extra benefit to you except that you can trade the spares. you may have known that already, but as always it's free bonus useless information from KMad day. in the BtS expansion that's supposedly changing somehow with the Corporation features, i'm not sure how but i imagine we'll find out next month! well, the part about spare resources is changing. the fact that i add useless information, i don't think Firaxis can help me with my issues there.

 

[obsolete]

Ayyy, my favourite trade exploit. I had no iron and was still stuck with catapults that I wanted to upgrade to cannons. I made a deal with isabella, 30 gold a turn for iron.

Worked out great, instead of 30x10 turns (or is the limit 20 like in the days of Civ III?)... it was only 30 gold for 1 turn. I instantly upgraded all cannons and declared war the next turn

End result, all deals are canceled during state of war. That exploit is a nice gold-saver to keep in your Civ Arsenal of tactics.

 

[KMadCandy]

trade deals last a minimum of 10 turns, unless of course that war thing gets in the way .

you're the opposite of me. i wanted to make more cats instead of cannon once, to make sure a jumbo would reach level 5 to make west point. the only bad guy (i was OCC on a duel map since i had to get time victory) didn't have troops i was sure would survive a cannon assault, and it had to be one special jumbo doing the kill. yes his troops were weak so i didn't really need west point, but that's hardly the point now is it? i might have needed it later on, best to get qualified for it now!

so, i pillaged my iron and went back to making cats for a few turns *giggle*. it worked .

 

[cabert]

trade deals last a minimum of 10 turns, unless of course that war thing gets in the way .

you're the opposite of me. i wanted to make more cats instead of cannon once, to make sure a jumbo would reach level 5 to make west point. the only bad guy (i was OCC on a duel map since i had to get time victory) didn't have troops i was sure would survive a cannon assault, and it had to be one special jumbo doing the kill. yes his troops were weak so i didn't really need west point, but that's hardly the point now is it? i might have needed it later on, best to get qualified for it now!

so, i pillaged my iron and went back to making cats for a few turns *giggle*. it worked .

Kmad, you know I love you, but you're completely

 

[LlamaCat]

so let me get this straight: if I have 2 golds hooked up in my borders, I only get 1 happiness out of it.... but if I have 1 gold and 1 silver, I would get 2 happiness? that's really not a good method of how it should work, in fact that's downright annoying. makes me think twice before bothering to kill myself hooking up happiness resources.

then again, does that mean when I'm trading resources, I would benefit from giving 1 gold for 1 silk, when I currently have 2 gold and no silk?? I get offers for deals like this all the time and always think they are pointless because I'm trading happiness for happiness. maybe it's starting to all come clear...? someone please confirm.

 

[carbonex]

Yes, if you have two golds, you'll only get the happiness benefit from one of them. You figured out yourself what that's not such a bad thing: trading. You can easily trade extra resources for ones you don't have (or sell them for GPT). So definitely hook up all that you can. Think of hooking up another gold as hooking up the silver that an AI has for trade.

The new expansion is going to add a further twist to multiple resources with corporations. Apparently you'll garner benefits from duplicate resources with specific corporations.

 

[LlamaCat]

it's amazing how you can still learn new things about this game all the time...

 

[KMadCandy]

so let me get this straight: if I have 2 golds hooked up in my borders, I only get 1 happiness out of it.... but if I have 1 gold and 1 silver, I would get 2 happiness? that's really not a good method of how it should work, in fact that's downright annoying. makes me think twice before bothering to kill myself hooking up happiness resources.

then again, does that mean when I'm trading resources, I would benefit from giving 1 gold for 1 silk, when I currently have 2 gold and no silk?? I get offers for deals like this all the time and always think they are pointless because I'm trading happiness for happiness. maybe it's starting to all come clear...? someone please confirm.

"I get offers for deals like this all the time and always think they are pointless because I'm trading happiness for happiness."
you're giving them +1 happy that you're not using (if you have 2 gold), but you're getting +1 happy that you did not have already from their silk. so you're getting a total of +1 happy you didn't have; so are they, keep that in mind if what you really want is for them to live horrid miserable lives.

and it gets more confusing, since resources are not valued equally ...

1 gold is worth 1 happy. but, 1 gold is worth 2 happy faces in a city with a forge ... the forge adds to the happiness of gold (and gems/silver). a market doubles the happiness of the silk.

health resources are the same way. to me, rice/corn/wheat are the most "valuable" since the one that turns them from +1 health to +2 health is the granary, which you will have in pretty much every city. so those 3, i try very very hard to get for myself either in my own land or in trades, and they're the ones i least prefer to trade away to other civs, since they'll benefit from them the most. yes i try to help CFC posters, i do not, however, try to help my AI competition when playing Civ4 ... don't tell them that during diplomatic games tho please.

cabert's here! try the links in his sig for more info on how to make your people happier and/or healther. specifics related to which buildings double which resources -- post #4 for happiness and post #3 for health. +3 Thank you cabert! you saved me lots of looking up stuff and typing you do know you also win the "well no DUH" award for the week for "Kmad, you know I love you, but you're completely " don't you? 100% of us knew that already.

the basic idea for me is:

rice >> pigs because i will have granaries earlier and in many more cities than supermarkets

gold usually >> fur because i will have forges more places than markets most likely, and because fur expires.

whether i've added to the mess or helped you, i have no idea.

 

[cabert]

kmad, I know you're strange sometimes.
But this "I want WP although it's useless to me, and I want it through this jumbo and noone else" is just, hum, well, beyond sanity?
You obviously were playing vanilla, in which you only need a level 5 unit to get WP. I get level 5 units all the time!
think of it this way :
- 8 XP from scratch with barracks, theocracy and vassalage
- 10 XP is the max you can get through a fight with low odds

Your catapults were going to fight at low odds.
Some other units could do this too (like flanking units), for a low price.
If you fight 5% odds fights all game long (it happens, as I just wrote above), you're quite likely to win at least one of those and have this level 5 unit.
If it didn't happen, it's probably because you didn't fight a lot. So it certainly doesn't matter if you have WP or not .
This is just beyond me.

 

[KMadCandy]

to make this semi-sort-of-on-topic or potentially helpful: if for whatever bizarre reason you want to not have access to a resource in your borders, note that you cannot pillage your own roads. but you can pillage your mines/plantations and such. you don't get any money tho. be careful roading where you want to encourage forests to regrow, since a road on a tile halves the chance for a forest to grow there (altho it doesn't eliminate it the way an actual improvement on the tile does).

ok i'm sidetracking yet another thread but i blame this one on the green felt dude .

i needed a time victory, but with all victory conditions left on, for the HoF QM table. i'd tried one the real way, but the game crashed after more than 15 hours invested and was ineligible; i didn't want to go through that again. the game hadn't been very fun in the first place one it got to the "when will i get to end of this" stage. the easiest/quickest way to get a time victory when you have to avoid hitting the other victories is with OCC, so that you can't trigger domination, or cultural by accidentally building too many wonders in three cities. obviously you can control whether you kill the last dude or not. i chose to play on settler difficulty using a duel map with only one opponent, since all i wanted was credit for the box and did not care about a challenge; yes that is a cheesy way to do it! i limited the AI to just one city, altho he didn't know that was all he was ever going to get. when i had better things to do than actually fight, i crippled him by standing on every tile he could have used.

so, he didn't tech very fast, and he didn't produce many units. so i didn't have a chance to fight with very low odds. that jumbo was the unit that had the most exp and nobody else was likely to get more, so it made the most sense to concentrate on purely him fighting the most "real" fights i had access to. (as far as anything in that game made sense).

but west point is a shiny building and i wanted it!!!! whether it mattered or not. in that situation, the hammers invested/wasted didn't matter a bit, i wasn't giving up anything useful to make it. and i ummm, forgot about theocracy and vassalage, but at settler with his production and tech rate, i still would have needed lowbie units, and hadn't pre-made enough cats before i researched steel. it was a really really fun game by the way! it was my first ever OCC i think.

i admit to being beyond sanity. sometimes. actually, often. . but see, this makes sense, in that particular "applies only to KMadCandy the nutcase" scenario". my friends in college called some of my reasoning KMad logic (but they used my real name). i kinda sorta know what they meant. i choose to take it as a compliment.

 

[LlamaCat]

I was aware of the building benefits, those are clearly explained in the game mouseovers. However to continue the example, if I have 2 gold and I build a forge, I only get +1 extra happiness.... but if I have 1 gold and 1 silver, I get +2 happiness if I build a forge?

the thing that really irks me in all this is when I am offered a trade, I can't click out of the diplomatic screen to check around on other screens to see what I need first, without initially denying the trade offer.

 

[KMadCandy]

if you have 2 gold, and you build a forge, you get +1 extra happiness, for a total of 2 happy from one of the gold. the second gold is just there to trade, or to gloat at the computer "i have two and you don't".

if you have 1 gold and 1 silver, you get +2 extra happy, +1 extra for each one over and above the 1 for each you would get ordinarily, total of 4 happy faces. add another +1 extra for gems.

trying to be clear, not trying to be condescending, just want to make sure i understand what you're asking and am not misleading you.

the thing that really irks me in all this is when I am offered a trade, I can't click out of the diplomatic screen to check around on other screens to see what I need first, without initially denying the trade offer.

you actually can check around ... i didn't realize that myself at first, and was soooooo glad when hubby told me! i usually check the screens using the function keys. F4 = diplo, etc. but when someone comes demanding, etc., F4 doesn't work for me. but i can use the mouse and click on the little button up at the top left of the screen, and that opens up the normal diplomatic screen! then i can look and see things like how much the guy he's demanding i cancel trading with likes me, so can i afford a -1 with him, is the tech he's demanding well-known so i may as well give in, that sort of thing. and if i'm playing with hand-picked civs and i put in both asoka and gandhi or whatever, that's the only way i know of to tell which indians are "the vile" ones they want you to not trade with *giggle*.

i was so excited i made a whole thread about it. changed my civ life . someone warned me in that thread that if you exit whatever screen you're checking by hitting the escape key, rather than clicking exit, that automatically rejects the demand that so-and-so was making. so be careful of that.

 

[LlamaCat]

I don't think you are getting what I am saying, but if you are this isn't really clear:

"but i can use the mouse and click on the little button up at the top left of the screen"

what little button at the top left? when you are in the diplomatic screen with another leader, there is no such thing. in fact you are locked into this screen until some kind of diplomatic resolution occurs, i.e., you either accept or reject the transaction. only then can you click around on all the other resource screens to double check your statistics. of course, you can always re-initiate a dialogue with a leader, but when someone comes demanding something, I don't think you can first check around and put that demand on pause or hold.

 

[KMadCandy]

in fact you are locked into this screen until some kind of diplomatic resolution occurs, i.e., you either accept or reject the transaction. only then can you click around on all the other resource screens to double check your statistics. of course, you can always re-initiate a dialogue with a leader, but when someone comes demanding something, I don't think you can first check around and put that demand on pause or hold.

that's what i used to think too. i am so very happy that i was wrong!!! i'd thought that was a game design decision. it turns out that it's not, it's just a game mechanics thing, you have to use the mouse to click.

i said left but i meant right. i'm reallllllllllllllly bad with that, i'm sorry. trust the picture not my words! my cursor is highlighting the button for the foreign advisor/diplo screen. if i click on that with the mouse, it opens the normal diplo screen while i'm talking to the guy.

Spoiler :

to take this picture, i talked to him on my own, it's not taken during a demand. i couldn't quite figure out how to arrange one of course. i think maybe in demands the screen is bigger. but this does work for demands too, the buttons do show up, in the same place. my problem was that i was trying to access them by the function keys the way i always do, and that method doesn't work during demands.

i also use this method to check the power graph when someone "requests" my help during wartime, etc.

 

[LlamaCat]

wow thanks, I will check that out - so you are basically clicking on the main interface buttons. But I seem to remember that this diplo screen fills my entire screen so those are blocked for me during negotiations. I do everything with the mouse so I find it odd that I would have missed this. I notice your screen showing Alex is smaller, situated several inches below the top of the screen. You can actually see Fission being researched. Mine does not look like this at all! On my screen he would fill the entire screen and block everything. what the heck?

 

[KMadCandy]

Mine does not look like this at all! On my screen he would fill the entire screen and block everything. what the heck?

i play in windows mode as a constant alt-tabber, that may be part of it. my resolution is 1280x1024, yours is probably different. i think during actual demands the screen with their face is a bit bigger on my screen than in that "staged by me talking to him" picture, but i can still access those interface buttons. so i do, because it's priceless!

 

[LlamaCat]

ok I figured it out - when you close the side dialogue boxes you can click those other buttons behind the screen. I see what you mean now, you can click around all the resource screens and when you exit out it will put you back on the screen with who you are talking to.

you're right, this is priceless to know! now I might actually get good at this game...

 

[KMadCandy]

yay i'm so glad i finally was able to explain it and help! because man oh man it truly madly deeply helps me, i can't even tell you how much!

i don't know whether i'll actually get good at this game or not, but i have more fun knowing this about it