Immortal Minimalism, Chapter I - Hatshepsut

[ChanceDanger]

Internet is going to be pretty important and even before that it's going to be difficult to balance the coming from factories, coal plants and ect. (When I started building labs and factories I was cursing Yatta for seemingly avoiding any source of health besides forests ). I'm pretty sure it's a Computer beeline then Labs -> Genetics (that +3 is going to be really handy in this game). Then all that other spaceship jazz

Is Memphis starting to get cultural pressure from Walata? That might become a problem down the road with its Versailles or Forbidden Palace silver star. (Mild spoiler: It was for me)

 

[coanda]

If you play a peaceful, friendly end-game against Mansa Musa for a SS victory here, it's likely to be very close.

Which is why I recommend a peaceful, unfriendly strategy instead. Bribe people to attack him. Push up your espionage slider; steal spaceship techs, sabotage production, and destroy copper and aluminum mines. Heck, gift people warring with him tactical nukes if you get the chance!

 

[yatta77]

If you play a peaceful, friendly end-game against Mansa Musa for a SS victory here, it's likely to be very close.

Which is why I recommend a peaceful, unfriendly strategy instead. Bribe people to attack him. Push up your espionage slider; steal spaceship techs, sabotage production, and destroy copper and aluminum mines. Heck, gift people warring with him tactical nukes if you get the chance!

Thanks for the idea! I like the plan! This is some kind of geniality missing in my games!
The idea is cool and makes sense of course, but I'm not really willing to risk to mess up the diplomatic relations (with the result of a game-over war against Mansa) from bribing and spying without the correct know-how.
If you wish to spend some time showing us the trick starting from one of my saves, please feel free to post about, this would be very welcome!
In case you'll try it up, thanks.

 

[yatta77]

Session 18, turn 220, 1550AD.
(first attempt, no cheats, no reloads)

End session. Save attached.

---

The two started wonder, if missed, have a +100% gold failure since iron and spiritual trait.
I guess this session is quite self-explicative. If something isn't clear, just ask.

 

[vranasm]

right now I don't have on hand the tech screen... but why you didn't tech Computers? I thought you were gunning for Internet... or is AL+RR on the path?

 

[yatta77]

right now I don't have on hand the tech screen... but why you didn't tech Computers? I thought you were gunning for Internet... or is AL+RR on the path?

Plastic is required for computer. Combustion and industrialism are required for plastic.
In my previous post I was answering you about going radio before assembly line, not about skipping assembly line. Assembly line might look more appealing than electricity-radio, but from my experience I found better going electricity-radio and trade for the assembly line and its needed requisite techs.
This game I've done few mistakes in diplomacy so I have no friendly AIs and I'm left with only one single trading partner which is not at the top yet with research, but usually you could get techs like railroad or combustion with electricity or radio. Still the Greek could discover combustion (as well as rifling, ...) for me while I'm researching assembly line and industrialism.
Then next, of course, the path is plastics >> computer.

Edit: another thing has to be done it is hook that oil.

 

[vranasm]

ah ok

is evident that I proceed other ways usually ;-) Computers are not important for me, since even if I decide for space race I want to have at least 20 cities and with that amount of cities you can usually pump something like 3k+ beakers which is sufficient for self tech.

 

[yatta77]

Session 19, turn 249, 1695AD
(first attempt, no cheats, no reloads)

---

30 images per post limit reached, the session continues in the post below...

 

[yatta77]

session 19, continuing...

End session. Save attached.

---

Another quite self-explicative session I guess, building up the hammers machine, and pleasing the AIs to don't get involved in wars. As above, if the meaning of some images or something else isn't clear, just ask.

I'll be more word-descriptive in the last sessions, where the Egyptian destiny will be decided.

 

[yatta77]

The easy task is done: in turn 269, 1795AD the Internet project is completed.

Egypt is now 1 turn away from discovering the fiber optics (next: superconductors >> fusion) outputting over 1200 science/turn, holding the monopoly on plastics, computer, and next fiber optics.

Technologies known by 1 AI but missing: communism, rocketry and ecology (Mansa); refrigeration (Capac).

Pretty good, huh?

The lumbermill-railroad-workshop setup is done all-over Egypt, only a couple of tiles are still waiting for a last minute forest.

All cities are kind of ok with health, and reached about their maximum size. They all have factories and power.

The major cities are able to output a couple of hundred hammers/turn.

And next with fiber optics and laboratories, science and hammer outputs will grow some more.

The major issue is the missing aluminum and copper (Mansa will trade them while the space race?): if it can be done in this immortal game to achieve a space race victory in this way, no matter sharing the continent with Mansa and Montezuma and being without copper and aluminum, I guess (even if likely not the most efficient way to play) it cannot be considered something relying just on a lucky map or some specific favorable settings.

However, if all this might work on immortal still has to be proven by facts (winning the game), and it won't be an easy task at all.

All the screen shots of this last session are in this and the following posts.
The save is attached in the following post.

---


Session 20, turn 269, 1795AD
(first attempt, no cheats, no reloads)

---

30 images per post limit reached, the session continues in the post below...

 

[yatta77]

session 20, continuing...

End session. Save attached.

---


That's it for the easy part.

This is the last self-explicative session: as always, if something is not clear, feel free to ask.

From the next session, I will restart commenting each screen shot as for the earlier sessions.

 

[ChanceDanger]

Your diplo is much more exciting than my shadow game ended up being. Next time you get an election for UN security general, it might be a good idea to bring Mansa back to 0 by voting for him. Other diplo thoughts include:

-Free Religion and paying Pericles to be in free religion, should be a slam dunk and more importantly you can import aluminum and copper from him (I ended up just turning the slider to zero and bought both resources for cash, although I had the luxury of being able to buy from Mansa)

-Because it would be a bummer if the game ended in DoW, the only other civic that would buy diplo and not hurt the economy would be Free Market, which would give you +1 or +2 Diplo to Mansa, which with a vote for the UN should be enough to put him back to friendly. You might have to switch him to Free Market, but it looks like a decent time to sell Fascism for cash and diplomacy, then use the cash to buy yourself a little more diplomacy. Also might mean you get to avoid a vote on Enviromentalism.

-Mansa completing broadway means you might want to build a jail/security bureau/intelligence agency in one city and run a few spies. If the game comes down to culture winning before Alpha Centuri and we obviously can't afford war, espionage is probably the only weapon we'll have (unless there's an ambitious assault of his 3rd legendary cities with an Archer rush). City revolts would probably be best because we could just build up EP until he gets within 20 turns, then send a Spy stack of Doom to put his last city into continual revolt and hope for now DoW before the win.

Can we get a look at Victory conditions?

 

[yatta77]

(...)
Can we get a look at Victory conditions?

You spoke/spoken (<- grammar doubt: which is correct?) wisely!
...but a bit too late
I already played (and lost, again) this end game, before reading your post, sorry. I'll check your spoiler tomorrow, since you likely played better than I did, and achieved the victory condition I keep on missing on immortal.

As for my last session, here the screen shots and few saves attached.

 

[ChanceDanger]

Yep, that's what happened to me on my first try. As you'll see in my write up, I went for a second try just to see it be done, and I was able to save up enough espionage that I could keep Gao from going legendary into the 1930s, which was just enough to make up for the fact that I self-teched communism. (I also felt a second time was necessary because I put my Ironworks in Memphis during my first only to watch the city get culturally eaten up, there was a need for revenge on Mansa)

Either way, I found this approach really fun because I didn't think it was really viable to hit space with so few cities (especially with a peaceful jerk like Mansa who can figure out a path for victory.) Also, very fun managing a game without much , or to the very end, definitely makes up for the games I thought the AI stole from me.

Grammar note:

Spoiler :

That one is tricky but the general rule is you spoke/you have spoken. I don't want to speak for the English language because I generally make up my own generalizations of rules of English (The value of an American education!), but verbs that go irregular with the 'n' at the end (I can only think of 'spoken' and 'taken' right now, but there are others), are past tense with a helping verb (either 'have', 'has been' or 'was' usually).

Sadly, I'm not an English major so a second opinion may be necessary.

 

[yatta77]

Yep, that's what happened to me on my first try. As you'll see in my write up, I went for a second try just to see it be done, and I was able to save up enough espionage that I could keep Gao from going legendary into the 1930s, which was just enough to make up for the fact that I self-teched communism. (I also felt a second time was necessary because I put my Ironworks in Memphis during my first only to watch the city get culturally eaten up, there was a need for revenge on Mansa)

From your previous post:

The wars slowed down Mansa this time and Huayna ended up with nearly all the cultural wonders off the electricity-radio-mass media line.

Yes, you (as coanda, who was also advising about the same few posts above) had the geniality to understand that it was needed to play diplomatically the end game in a more efficient way.
I just toke (not "taken" ) the arrogant path of "I'm going straight my way toward SS components, I don't fear AIs victory strategies". On a side note: connecting Oil was a very bad choice: only Montezuma needed it and Mansa asked me to stop trading with him with the result of having +zillions of .
Fool Montezuma just let Capac vassal him, so I couldn't even ask him to attack Mansa in the end game.

Either way, I found this approach really fun because I didn't think it was really viable to hit space with so few cities (especially with a peaceful jerk like Mansa who can figure out a path for victory.) Also, very fun managing a game without much , or to the very end, definitely makes up for the games I thought the AI stole from me.

Few posts above I was thinking about trying a 4 cities cultural victory (as my IU game #54) with Genghis for the next, with few other restrictions since a cultural victory is easier for me. If this might interest someone. I don't know if I'll do it again so detailed, for time reasons of course, but if a synthetic version is ok, I might play it. Also because after 3 consecutive losses on immortal, now I need to hit a victory again

Edit: by the way, I'm glad to ear that this reading (and playing the end game yourself) was interesting and fun for you.

Grammar note:

Thanks.
It was very late and I was too tired to check out somewhere, and when I'm tired I often end up confusing the 2nd and 3rd "column" of English irregular verbs.
But your simple rule: "n" goes with "been", and not with simple past might be useful next time.

 

[vanillasine]

It was very late and I was too tired to check out somewhere, and when I'm tired I often end up confusing the 2nd and 3rd "column" of English irregular verbs.
But your simple rule: "n" goes with "been", and not with simple past might be useful next time.

Been shadowing this game, and it was very interesting. I actually have very similar goals in most of my games (non-aggression) so its nice to see they have potential on immortal.

And don't worry -- it was perfectly legible.

 

[yatta77]

Been shadowing this game, and it was very interesting. I actually have very similar goals in most of my games (non-aggression) so its nice to see they have potential on immortal.

And don't worry -- it was perfectly legible.

Thanks!
It is nice to read that some people appreciated this attempt no matter the final result was negative.
But, no matter that, I really need another win now!
So I'm going to start with a (likely less detailed) second chapter of this series.
Hoping it might be an interesting, entertaining, or at least fun reading for someone.