Immortal University 94 - Alexander

[klonoklown]

Monarch 1585 AD Conquest

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SIP, I decided I wanted to start my economy first versus using the oracle to grab construction. Standard worker techs, alpha, math, HBR, then construction. I have been picking on AC since the beginning, stole 5 or 6 workers off him, then finished him off with a couple phanlx, jumbos and cats. Hammy was next with this war combo, by this time I hit Feudalism and capped him.

Lib'ed MT upgraded some jumbos, capped KK, lincoln, cyrus then wang. Have to love the power of Cuirs and lastly I teched to SP, which IMO helped me with that last stride to the win.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Immortal, Normal Speed, No Huts, No Events, Domination - 1675 AD.

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I wanted to see a reason to move as SIP was not bad at all. If I was going to move, it would be for Marble. After moving the scout to check the area around Marble, I decided to settle 1 S of it for the double corn.

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I gave up a good Bur cap spot for it, but Marble's always useful.

I didn't bother for the Oracle despite the recent talk on the forums about it. One, Greece has a putrid starting tech combo, the worst in the game as far as I am concerned. Two, we don't have any strong commerce tiles. Despite the pull of Elephants and Odeon, I decided to just tech Construction the old fashioned way. Oracle also went in 1760 AD, I wouldn't have had everything in place to get it by then anyway.

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In 750 BC all my neighbours went Buddhist. When in Rome and all that, so I went Buddhist too.

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At this point I was tempted to just sit back and win a peaceful culture victory. I had Marble, I was teching pretty well, Philosophical helps with Culture victories by spitting out Artists and the diplo picture was all hunky-dory with everyone sharing borders with me Pleased or better with me and in the same religion.

Landed the Great Library in 75 BC

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Got the Music's Great Artist in 50 AD.

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At this point I was fully committed to Culture. I was building the Sistine and founded a second academy with a Great Scientist instead of saving him for a bulb just for the 4 Culture per turn.

Then the diplo picture changed. Wang hates me for heathen religion and trading with his worst enemies. He demanded 400 gold in tribute and I told him to get bent. He immediately went into war mode. I decided to pre-empt the inevitable declaration by declaring on him first and bribing Cyrus in to keep Wang busy.

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But now, the idiot Hammurabi had built the Shwedagon Paya and adopted Free Religion. He went from pleased to cautious and me declaring war on his friend didn't help. Oh well, so much for peaceful culture victory.

I rapidly switched gears and went into full war mode. It was a little late now for an Elepult rush so I decided to tech to Engineering first and unlock Maces too on the way there. In 840 AD, I had managed to whip out a stack of Elephants, Trebuchets and Maces and declared on Hammurabi.

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He was shockingly backwards for an Immortal AI at this point without even Feudalism. Capped him in 1040 AD after taking the Pyramids off his hands.

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At this point Cyrus and Kublai were at war with Wang Kon due to my maneuvering. That gave me free pass to hit Augustus who was the most advanced AI but badly boxed in and spent his hammers on Wonders instead of troops. I declared on him in 1090 AD and picked up two excellent cities.

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I got to Liberalism in 1190 AD and picked up Steel.

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After taking one more city Caesar capped in 1190 AD.

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The war gave me quite a haul of wonders.

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Cyrus managed to capitulate Wang and now him and Kublai were in war mode. Cyrus was Friendly with me and he had Pleased or better relations with my vassals. So I was safe from him. Kublai was likely going for me. So I decided to get a Defense Pact with Cyrus just for the giggles in case Kublai attacks me. In the meantime I started massing Cannons and Maces promoted down the City Raider line, then upgraded to Grenadiers on the Mongol border.

Cyrus nullified our Pact by attacking Lincoln. This meant I was now free to hit Kublai. Declared on him in 1330 AD with a large stack of Cannons, Grenadiers and Elephants. Kublai had Rifling but Cannons will chew through anything for quite a while and Grenadiers are no slouches when it comes to fighting Rifles. I killed two of Kublai's stacks and he capped in 1430 AD.

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Now it was time to finish the game by taking down Cyrus. This was a little scary as he had two vassals with Wang being almost completely unmolested at nine cities and Cyrus was huge with 15 cities. But I decided to continue putting my faith in Cannons and declared in 1505 AD. The war was a long drawn out affair. Cyrus had two huge stacks beyond the Mongol border. (They were some of the largest non-Mehmed stacks I have seen, my own stack had to make three runs at it to kill the combined numbers). But after capturing massive swaths of land and finally killing his stacks, which led to the most dramatic drop in power I have seen in a game of Civ, he capped in 1640 AD.

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Now I was awfully close to Domination. But silly Lincoln wouldn't cap. He even told me that I must be surely joking when I asked him to cap.

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I told him I am definitely not joking, proceeded to capture three of his cities and told him not to call me Shirley. He was capped in 1670 AD and this instantly put me over the Domination threshold.

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Final Demographics:

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Statistics:

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Thanks a lot for the map, Klonoklown, it was fun!

 

[DanielTorrence]

Because it's a small, crowded map.

some of the AI have a lot of room and still expanded towards me, like

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Persia or even Hammi. AC truly had no space here

.

I guess there is some like "box the human player in" somewhere in the code...

 

[rfcfanatic]

Monarch/Normal/No Huts/No Events

I learned from the unspoiled parts of the previous posts that settling on grassland Ivory didn't give an extra hammer, so settling on Ivory would give me nothing useful. Plains Marble would give an extra hammer, but wasting 2 turns for moving the Settler is probably not worth it, there aren't any info about food resources nearby the Marble and I wouldn't like the mountain next to my capital.

I'm probably going to SiP. That would also enable me to settle my later city on Marble in case the Scout reveals any rich food resources there.

 

[klonoklown]

^ Good logic rfcfanatic, seen posting of a couple of your recent games, you continue to improve! Keep up the good work.

 

[Izuul]

Immortal 1470 Conquest

I really had fun playing this one, thanks Klonoklown.

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As stated in my last update, i went for a Construction Oracle since we had been discussing the strategy in the Oracle thread. I do not think it's a great play here though.

I got lucky and popped some gems early which probably took 2-3 turns off the Oracle. Always a nice boost when that happens.

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I took Construction with the Oracle in 1480BC.

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I started the first war with just 2 cities and a bunch of forest chops though i did eventually settle 2 more in my land.

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I was still able to get an Academy pretty early to give my capitol long-term potential. Gotta love the Philo trait.

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No pictures of the war, but i wiped out Babylon then took Caesar's best cities and capped him. Rome was a nice haul.

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After taking out Rome, i teched to Engineering and started a GA to aid in massing troops to go after either Cyrus or Mongolia.

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Mongolia switched religions and dropped to cautious with me, so i decided that he needed to be the next target. I took a border city and was then greeted by this stack that returned from fighting Lincoln. There's 40+ units there if you count the knights and stuff a tile away.

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I baited him back to Old Sarai, moved my units outside the city, and then hit him with a ton of trebs when he took his city back. It took 2 turns to kill off his stack, but he was a goner after that. I marched on to his capitol which was lightly defended it, and he capitulated as soon as it fell.

The big clash:

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After killing Mongolia, i massed my troops up on the Persian border and went for Lib, taking Steel in 1160 AD. This game worked out well from a diplo standpoint as there was very little tech trading and enough war to slow everyone down.

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Trebs got upgraded to Cannons followed by Maces being upgraded to Grenadiers, and then the rest of the map fell very quickly.

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[Smilingrogue]

@ Izuul

Good game you played there. I have a couple questions:

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When did you launch on Hammurabi? How big was your stack? Did you use the whip at all?

You generated two GSs quickly, so I don't think you whipped much. I am curious how big an army with moderate whipping and a lot of chopping a two city break-out can produce.

 

[rfcfanatic]

1960 AD Domination victory

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Settled in place and researched Agriculture - Mining - BW - The Wheel - Pottery - Mysticism- Meditation - Priesthood. Noticing how close Rome was, I had to postpone the plan of settling on Marble and instead I aggressively settled my 2nd city Sparta close to Rome:

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Corinth, my 3rd city ended up on Marble. While building the Settler I teched Writing - Masonry. A mistake! Masonry should have come before Writing so I could have started on the Oracle a few turns earlier. Nevertheless, I completed the Oracle in 1320 BC and chose Metal Casting as the free tech. Continued to research towards Horseback Riding and Construction. In the meantime I managed to whip a couple of Forges which would make Elepult whips more efficient. Got Construction in 200 BC. By then I had expanded to 6 cities and there weren't any more room for peaceful expansion.

Hammurabi had founded Hinduism which besides me had also spread to Kublai Khan and Augustus Caesar. So it was a no-brainer to religiously side with 2 warmongers and Rome. Now the obvious target for Elepult breakout was Cyrus, the founder of Buddhism. He was the strongest in score and power by then. The war preparations took hellishly long. I was ready in 400 AD. I was lucky that Cyrus didn't have Longbows by then! I also brought in Kublai Khan as the war ally against Cyrus. Cyrus got wiped out by 1050 AD:

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After the war the long struggle of technological catch-up began. As usual, I lost Liberalism again. Probably because I chose the Guilds - Banking path. I really had to build some financial institutions in order to earn more gold per turn. When I got Rifling and Steel, I started preparing a war against Lincoln. A lot of citizens were demanding Emancipation by then, but I waited with the switch until I felt that I had whipped enough Rifles and Cannon for the upcoming war.

Declared on Lincoln in 1810 AD. But guess what? Lincoln had a defensive pact with Augustus Caesar. And AC had Infantry My small garrison of Rifles in Sparta couldn't avert the inevitable and the city was lost to Rome. I was 7 turns away from Assembly Line, so I had to rely on Rifles and Cannon. The army in America fought with success. I accepted the capitulation from Lincoln after he had lost 3 cities.

AC may have had Infantry, but his empire and his army were small. Also, I managed to unleash Kublai Khan on Augustus Caesar. A good number of my Rifles and Cannon recaptured Sparta. After getting Assembly Line, the taking of Rome was an easy task. I noticed that Rome had built a crazy amount of wonders (Pyramids don't even fit to the screen):

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Hammurabi was even crazier tech and wonder whore than AC. Actually, I find it very strange, because his traits (Agg/Org) don't suggest wonder-whoring at all. I have seen him doing this in earlier games. Also, I guess that huge amount of shrine gold helped him to tech at crazy rates. I had to stop him and declared on him in 1907 AD. My stack of Infantry/Artillery/Anti-Tank crossed the killing field under the constant rain of Bomber fire and made it to Akkad, a city near Corinth. Only to be met by deadly Gunships. But even they couldn't stand against my Artillery barrage and the city fell. Used a super-medic to heal my army in Akkad faster, moved in some reinforcements and advanced towards Babylon. The fighting was fierce, but it fell and surrendered its many wonders. The rest of Babylonian cities were relatively easy job.

Wang Kon of Korea had become the pariah of the world. He hated both me and Kublai. Also, he had built the Manhattan Project and defied when I tried to pass the NNPT in the UN. Massed my troops in the American city of Boston and revealed a horrifying sight:

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Wang Jong Un had gathered 5 tactical nukes I decided to wipe these out at sight. Captured the city and advanced on P'yongyang. Tried to move as fast as possible before he could build more nukes. To make things worse, he had settled a city on Uranium. Despite my efforts, I got nuked by the mad leader of Korea. The fallout is still visible near P'yongyang:

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Luckily, I didn't get nuked any more and eventually managed to depose the madman.

When the Korean cities came out of anarchy, the domination threshold got exceeded and the game was over. There was a huge battle of Stacks of Doom of Greece and Mongolia in preparation, but in the end it wasn't needed.

Some statistics:

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Power graph:

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End score:

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klonoklown, thanks for the map! It made my brain hurt, but the map was fun

 

[Izuul]

@ Izuul

Good game you played there. I have a couple questions:

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When did you launch on Hammurabi? How big was your stack? Did you use the whip at all?

You generated two GSs quickly, so I don't think you whipped much. I am curious how big an army with moderate whipping and a lot of chopping a two city break-out can produce.

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I had to load old saves to look since i played the first half of this game over a week ago.

I didn't start off with a large stack. I had 5 eles, 4 cats, and 1 phalanx on the turn that i declared. I was whipping my 2nd city and chopping around the cap. Once i got Hammy's old cities online production sped up quite a bit. When i declared on Rome 24 turns later i had 12 eles, 8 cats, a couple phalanx, and a super medic scout, so i was able to out-produce my losses (pretty much just suicide cats) quite easily.

 

[Smilingrogue]

@ rfcfanatic

Congratulations! Keep at it and you will win Lib eventually in one of these games. Something you might want to do is to bee-line Liberalism, tech to 1 turn from finishing it and then chase other stuff that you need to unlock whatever tech you want to Lib. Doing it this way, the AI will de-prioritise Liberalism and if you see some AI going for it, you can always just finish Lib first and take something useful instead of nothing.

 

[Dubioza]

Hellow IU!

Had no time to play these days, and I see quite a few new games here...so my goal is the same as last time; continue beating Emperor & try to play faster. Note: I watched AZ play this ~ week ago, so it's not completely blind play.

Emperor Normal NHNE

800 BC

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SiP'd after scout 2W didn't reveal anything worth moving for. Teched AG-Min-BW-Myst, improved corn & both ivories, chopped one forest and settled on marble in 2640 BC. Had slightly different plans, but Hammy settled toward me 2 turns earlier.

Met all-but-1 AI's turn later. Teched TW-Pott-Writing and stole a worker from Hammy. Few turns later AC settled toward me as well, luckily it's not Deity

In 2000 BC settled Corinth - I know it's not ideal, but don't have AH yet, so pigs can wait. And I haven't decided yet how I'll settle west of it - this leaves space for 1 or 2 cities.

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In 1360 BC settled Thebes while teching AH-Aesth, met last AI shortly after. In 845 BC settled Argos, turn later got GScientist who built academy in Athens.

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Now it's 800 BC, I have 5 cities, just finished Aesth and started on some cottages. Will have to put few turns into Alpha to get it from WK and backfill. He has only 3 cities, but 7 techs I don't. Quite scary.

Good thing is he's Buddhist and his neighbor Hindu. With Cyrus as Jew and spreading it my way, this could be interesting. I have to trade for Sailing asap, trade-routes are nonexistent. And I'll probably tech Currency, settle I think 3 more cities before Construction and elepultlanx AC or Hammy. Or both. But Hammy first? I wish AC built more WW's (like in AZ's game), only GWall so far... ..decision would be easier. On that note, not even Oracle went so far, I could've tried for late one. Now it's too late I'm afraid.

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Any predictions/indications on how these relations will/could play out?

Am I forgetting something?

 

[Dubioza]

700 BC Short update, just for the question;

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Did some trading, plan is to save Aesth as long as possible (as long as WK starts trading it around) and to backfill with Alpha.

Hammy converted to Cyrus' Judaism, now "the plan" is shaken - if I attack Hammy, I'll have to worry about Cyrus too. Unless I bribe, beg or get him to pleased? Probably still doable. If he convert AC as well it'll be bigger problem.

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Main question is, would you settle 1 or 2 cities here? 1 would require less micro, while 2 would share pig in 3 cities and I bet I'll stare at this again endlessly thinking how to do it and rearranging it. But copper&pig would overlap with capitol where is needed, and they both could be decent cities later on.

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Help!

 

[Smilingrogue]

@ Dubioza

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I would take Copper and Pig as that city will be productive right away, will help grow cap cottages and has decent long term potential. You probably won't need the other city on Plains hill as you should be able to conquer some decent land without having to settle such marginal cities.

 

[Dubioza]

@ Smilingrogue; Thanks, I did it like that. I guess I'm still over-thinking this

1 AD

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Settled pig&copper in 475 BC, turn later clam city on FP and next turn converted to Judaism on Cyrus' demand. Canceled deals with Linc on KK's demand as well as he have HbR I'd like to get from him. Otoh, Linc was researching Calender, but I had to choose.

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Finished Currency on the same turn WK finished it - had EP's on Linc till I met WK. Wanted to trade for Math, but no one wanted to, so after some binary researched Math & Construction. Traded some, for tech&cash, denied Alpha to Hammy (he's still mad about that worker anyways, no trade came from him) and settled on sugar.

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Traded some more and when Constr. finished started on cats. Working on 2nd GScientist and researching Drama so I can bulb Philo, if I can beat WK to it (he has Drama as well). AC converted to Judaism few turns ago, so now relations are bad. I mean mostly good, but that's bad. Good thing KK & Cyrus are pleased toward me, hopefully I can beg something from them next turn, as I'll DoW AC. He built TGL & 'mids & MoaiS and Rome now loox great to me And he have Monarchy & Lit & something else LOL that will help.

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After that, I have no idea. Hammy probably if all goes well.

 

[Izuul]

@Dubioza

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From what i can see there, if you attack AC he's likely going to bribe Hammy in on you with some combo of Theology, Currency, and Aesth, and you will be totally screwed. Even if that doesn't happen, Hammy could start plotting on you on his own. Your relations are much better with AC, you may even be able to get him to pleased and beg some gold. Consider trying that and attacking Hammy first.

 

[Dubioza]

@Izuul

Thanks! That knowledge about relations comes with experience I guess...have to work on that. You figured that bribing thing out only from relations between them or is that AI specific in this case? Thanks in advance!

600 AD

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Continued as planed; begged 10/40 gold from KK/Cy and DoW'd AC with stack of ~20 and cats coming from most cities. Luckily AC didn't bribe Hammy in. Captured Antium in 75 AD losing 2 cats & 1 phalanx. In 125 AD got Parthenon and started on MoM in Argos, city which is best choice for future HE city and traded for Calender with KK. Research: Music.

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Turn later AC was offering 200 gold for 10T peace, but unfortunately he built TGLib on that turn. So I continued toward Rome after healing for a turn or 2. Bulbed Philo in 175 AD and turn later captured Rome. I declined Monarchy + 60 gold and continued north.

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In 250 AD got GArtist from Music and traded for Monarchy. In 300 AD captured Cumae and took Theo for 10T peace. Researched HbR-Lit and sold PHood (KK 55) and Lit (WK 235) while waiting for MoM.

In 425 AD got MoM, started GAge and traded for Feud after putting 300 beakers into it. Also sold Music (Linc 370), adopted PoliceState, Vass & Theo and begged KK for 70 gold as he started plotting. He gave in, so it's not me. Research CService.

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In 500 AD KK DoW'd Linc and invited me in - I accepted, formally while preparing stack or 2 at Hammy' borders. Just finished Paper and got 55% GScientist in Rome, will bulb Edu soon - I'll wait to see what next GP will be.

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Hammy built AP, I took control. I'll DoW him in next few turns, I feel safe enough. Altho relations are still worrisome. Had problems with barb galley, lost 4 my galleys and 4 or 5 wb's before I ended its spree.

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[Izuul]

@Izuul

Thanks! That knowledge about relations comes with experience I guess...have to work on that. You figured that bribing thing out only from relations between them or is that AI specific in this case? Thanks in advance!

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Lots of great information in this article http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=478563.

You can see Hammurabi's thresholds for being bribed into a war there. I believe the criteria is the same for an AI bribing him as it is for a human bribing him, and that criteria is met here since he's pleased with AC and annoyed with you. AC also has the tech to bribe him with.

Now if you go after Hammy first instead, he would have to get AC to friendly before he could bribe him in on you.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong that AI-AI bribes use the same thresholds as Human-AI bribes.

 

[Dubioza]

Oh wow that's AMAZING!! Just the thing I was looking for! Thank you so much! *bookmarked*

 

[Dubioza]

1100 AD

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In short, DoW'd Hammy, took 3 cities and in 800 AD took 10T peace for CoL so I can delete one city AC (900 AD). Researched Nat, bulb & finished Edu.

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In 920 AD started GAge with GSci & GMerch, bulbed PPress with 2nd GSci and started building Taj in HE city. In 1010 AD KK asked me 2nd time to declare on Linc, I accepted again, and redeclared on Hammy. Researched Eng - PPress - Lib (1 turn to finish it) - GPowder. Rome is insane, even without Pacifism gives GP every ~5 turns with ~5 specs, still has ~5 food surplus and builds wonders every ~5 turns. Missed HSophia tho.

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Took 2 cities and Hammy is now willing to capitulate. I want to delete him to get rid of unhappiness, he has 3 more cities. I can take one in 2 turns, next 2-3 turns later (if it doesn't flip before that), but last one is old barb city between Cy, KK and Linc. Someone could cap him before I get there. But I think I'll try it, I can take whoever dares to cap him - I'm building units in most cities.

Lib is safe, I'll try for Steel and upgrade cats&trebs. Then Rifling and upgrade eles to cavs too, have some of everything with 17 and/or 10 xp. Still have 11 turns of GAge, I'll switch to CS & Pacifism for few turns to try to get 4th GAge.

Too bad WK doesn't want to trade with me; he has Guilds, only tech someone has that I don't, beside Compass - that would be helpful. I forgot to check recent relations, but I think I won't stop warring - just have to scout neighbors. KK is still in war with Linc (he took 2 or 3 cities) so I might start with him.

Guess I'll try for Conquest then.

Edit: KK & Cy are friendly; KK doesn't have any tech to bribe Cy in and I guess what's left of his stack is east in America. If I act fast..

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[Dubioza]

1480 AD Domination Victory

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In short, libbed Steel in 1140 AD and switched to Rep, CS & Pacifism till end of GAge. Took 10T peace with Hammy for Optics, leaving him with one (old barb city), just in time to upgrade ~15 units to cannons and DoW KK.

At the end of GAge switched to Bureau, Slavery & OR. Researched MT - Guilds - Const. Took 4 KK' cities, capped him in 1210 AD. 3 turns later redeclared & killed Hammy and redeclared on Linc. Took 1 city and he capped next turn.

SoD of 53 units was close to WK' borders, and I was his worst enemy all the time (when KK wasn't) and he beat me to Econ, so I DoW'd him in 1310 AD. Researched Democracy & hurried So'Liberty in Rome.

Took 2 cities and capped him in 1360 AD for Econ. Vassals researched me Banking & DR & Astro & Corp, I did RParts - Rifling. And turn or 2 into some techs that vassals researched.

In 1410 finished So'Liberty and got GSpy - had 2 GSci & GArt saved, got 2 GEng, but used them to hurry SoL & IW and finally started 4th GAge. Send SoD on SE edge of Persia, while new one gathered on NW edge. When they were in place, upgraded ~25 units to cavs & ~10 to rifles I DoW'd Cy in 1440 AD. Researched SciM & Comm.

Took 5 cities and in 1470 AD Cy capped. I was a bit over Dom limit, but I gave all his cities back instantly (all others before that) - like in only Conquest victory so far; then I got Conquest, now Dom. I was over Dom limit then as well. I really hoped it'd be Conquest...

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Someone asked what to do with "helper" cities around capitol - here are some of mine, for example. Note that this is not perfect as I'm still learning it as well, but I think I'm handling it. This is how I do it:

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You can see that capitol have only 8 it's own tiles (useful with dot-map), all the others are shared with 5 cities around it. So capitol worked those 8 all the time (mostly) and as capitol grew I switched other tiles back 1 by 1. Mostly. Mills were mines before, when capitol was building buildings/units it worked them. This requires a lot of micro (that's why my games last over 20h), but I think it's worth it.

Cause when you switch to Bureau, cottages you switch back to capitol are already towns or close. I was working green tiles in capitol, plains were switched back last so they don't slow down capitol's growth.

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Helper cities worked primarily tiles they shared with capitol (cottages!). When capitol was taking them back 1 by 1, they have to still be useful with fewer tiles. Some are whipped cause they don't have enough food to keep pop they had, some are working specs, some stagnate at low sizes building wealth - it all depends on food.

My Helper1 city was great even without shared tiles, it had everything - green farms, mines and was big enough to work few specs. Decent production as well, was building units mostly.

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Helper2 was comm city, good even with giving pigs away to Helper3. They are all useful making over 100 wealth even without capitol's tiles.

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Even these were useful, Helper5 had over 50 whip unhappy most of the time building units - it was unlucky that it had capitol on one side and HE on other, so it had to manage with 8 tiles - but it was still size 12.

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Some other cities:

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Spoiler Marginal1 :

Spoiler Marginal2 :

Spoiler Marginal3 :

Spoiler Rome :

Spoiler Babylon :

Too bad it was over so soon, just when they are set up like I think they should be and almost all at max pop pre-bio.

Thanks for interesting & fun map!