Improving xUPT

[Afforess]

Since xUPT spawned from a simple user request (from DRJ), it's become one of the most popular features ever included in A New Dawn. Now that it's been stolen added to other mods, I can't possibly settle for being second best.

What changes to core gameplay would make xUPT better?

Possible Improvements:

• Increase Ranged Bombard accuracy
• Double Ranged Bombard Attack Range
• Kick units in filled cities to the nearest adjacent tiles
  

What other changes to the gameplay would help make xUPT more enjoyable? What are the weak spots it faces now?

 

[Killtech]

1) as already mentioned cities: they should not go over the limit. kick units to free surrounding tiles. start next production if all tiles are already full while the produced unit is put to the end of the building order list.

2) cities 2: due to surround and destroy the UPT limit for forts & cities should be a bit different then for default tiles but based on the UPT limit. either it should be a static increase - like +2 units more, or a percentage increase like +50% more units allowed per city/fort tile. alternately you could apply this bonus to buildings - like barracks and garrisons.

3) moving over friendly units: to make unit movements easier this should be considered. so you could move a stack over a tile that is full as long as it doesn't stop on that tile. thus the UPT limit would be no direct movement restriction. but i guess this will need a different implementation that the current one and is probable too much work

4) if you don't consider point 3 remove the 1 UPT option as it is very nasty to play.

 

[Afforess]

1.) Agreed and already coded into 1.74

2.) I have never looked at S&D... I may need to.

3. ) There is actually a CanMoveThrough function that Firaxis exposed to the EXE but ATM, it's just a wrapper for CanMoveInto, which is where 99% of xUPT's code is in. I bet adding this would not be hard though. (Who said Firaxis always disappoints )

 

[Sonereal]

2) cities 2: due to surround and destroy the UPT limit for forts & cities should be a bit different then for default tiles but based on the UPT limit. either it should be a static increase - like +2 units more, or a percentage increase like +50% more units allowed per city/fort tile. alternately you could apply this bonus to buildings - like barracks and garrisons.

I strongly prefer percentage increases. A static increase can mean nothing on 10UPT but everything on 3UPT.


On another note: If bombard accuracy is increased, would it be better just to disable suicide siege units. Maybe even make them capturable?

 

[Killtech]

On another note: If bombard accuracy is increased, would it be better just to disable suicide siege units. Maybe even make them capturable?

yes. siege/artillery weapon mechanics needs to change. but this is not a strict UPT.

 

[Iceciro]

The seige units thing, while not strictly a xUPT thing, is something that would greatly improve the quality of it. As it is now large swarms of suicide siege heavily favor the defender because it allows them to smash the smaller unit stacks with some suicide siege and then run in with units that may not even be correct - I've had pikemen punched in the head by AI horseman after enough sucide seige - the units are put into such a weakened state that unit types/promotions/surround and destroy matter much less.

I think no combat ability, always capture artillery should be the norm, with even the catapults having two range, and they should be there to soften up enemy units, not put them into such a low HP that the unit you actually attack them with is negligible.

 

[Killtech]

as for siege weapons: i put my view in the other thread where this came up. it's a complete change of their combat mechanics but as it is now it seems broken beyond repair. however i think it should also be applied to default stack warfare (no UPT).

 

[DodgyDave]

xUPT, thats the BUG option, to limit how many units you got in one square right?

i tried to play using just 1 unit per square, but it seems the AI Ran into some issue within first 100 turns, as game said it was still thinking on AI turn, which first ended, when i changed it from 1 to unlimited and then it was finally my turn.

 

[Sonereal]

xUPT, thats the BUG option, to limit how many units you got in one square right?

i tried to play using just 1 unit per square, but it seems the AI Ran into some issue within first 100 turns, as game said it was still thinking on AI turn, which first ended, when i changed it from 1 to unlimited and then it was finally my turn.

1UPT is flawed. Don't use it.

 

[Killtech]

1UPT is flawed. Don't use it.

that said again, Afforess can you deactivate 1UPT so no one runs into this problem? as you can guess many will try it since it will be implemented in Civ5. but as long as there is no unit swapping and moving over full tiles (without stopping) this option is just flawed and hardly playable. (lowest UPT selectable in BUG settings should be 2)

 

[Teodosio]

Hello I use AND with xUPT with great enjoyment since I love Civilization but I hate the SoD. I use limit=3.
xUPT has an issue anyway that is really annoying at times. Since units cannot pass through tiles that are at maximum it gets very difficult to move units when you have a lot of them around. Everything devolves in a pointless micromanagent to switch units around that is quite boring. I think anyone that uses xUPT with a low limit can confirm this.

Proposed solution: do not strictly enforce the unit limit but make it so that penalties apply when the limit is breached. You could apply a -10% strength to the entire stack for each unit over the limit. Example: I set the limit on 3. Then, if I have 5 units in a stack they all get -20% strength. This is the same thing that they've done in "Defense" BtS mod by the way.

What do you think about that? I the A.I. is unable to understand this the limit could still be enforced for it, in order to avoid the A.I. ammassing huge stacks with -100% strenght. Or the limit could be enforced at x+1 for the A.I. such that at worst it would only get -10%.

 

[Afforess]

Hello I use AND with xUPT with great enjoyment since I love Civilization but I hate the SoD. I use limit=3.
xUPT has an issue anyway that is really annoying at times. Since units cannot pass through tiles that are at maximum it gets very difficult to move units when you have a lot of them around. Everything devolves in a pointless micromanagent to switch units around that is quite boring. I think anyone that uses xUPT with a low limit can confirm this..

In 1.74, units will able to be able to pass through (if it has enough movement points) stacks tiles that are full.

 

[Teodosio]

In 1.74, units will able to be able to pass through (if it has enough movement points) stacks tiles that are full.

You are really a great lord! Looking forward to 1.74 then!

 

[Iceciro]

...This made me go figure out the SVN stuff and download the newest alpha posthaste.

xUPT is one of the main reasons I play AND, and one of the major 'selling points' I use for it when I pitch the mod to friends. It is such a positive change for the nature of the wargame in Civ IV that I am even more excited for Civ V than I was before.