[GS] Inca Discussion Thread

[Reckoner]

So, what is this? It's in the background in the last of the official screenshots. New Natural Wonder?

I'm guessing this is the new graphic for a razed city or incomplete world wonder

 

[Giskler]

One housing for every two terrace farms. Adjacent? I don't know, at first read it was odd to me.

It doesn't mention adjacent so I imagine every TF provides 0.5 housing to the city that owns them. So a city with 4 TF gets +2 housing and so on.

 

[Sagax]

My 2 cents:

1. I wonder if Inca’s mountain bonuses will actually make mountain tiles worthwhile in comparison with regular tiles. Yes, they get yields and can work them - but mountain tiles also mean no districts to place, no features to chop (even with CO2 considerations), no resources to obtain. They might end up in what I call “The Indonesia trap” - yes, Kampungs are strong, but you are still handicapping yourself if your city has too few regular land tiles.

2. About mountain tunnels: please show on stream or ask them about the movement mechanics. I highly doubt you can TP across the entire mountain range, and I’m surprised some people don’t consider that possibility OP. If Incas have mountain start bias, and if their new map generator indeed makes more mountain ranges - then any invaders are royally screwed. Have a builder charge and a flanking unit ready on one end of the range, finish the tunnel when you want to counterattack - boom, you just TPed your army into a perfect pincer position, traveling more tiles in one turn that a melee unit could ever dream of. And to address the “How often will you see that?” argument: Do we really want such a high swing scenario in the game at all, even if rare?

IMO, it will work like this: you can TP if you have enough movement points to spend on the number of tiles you want to cross. One tile cross = 2 MPs, two tile cross = 4 MPs (so cavalry only).

 

[Sostratus]

BTW.. additional food to TF is one time if close to mountain or it stacks for each mountain tile..?

int he FL video, when they went to send a trade route, every option on the list was +10 and +9 food. It stacks.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Well, production is useful for just about everything.

I wonder if the district system will inhibit them, though. Hug a bunch of mountains and build terrace farms....Now where does the campus or encampment go?

You could Place them on flatlands which are not that useful for the Inca and their large city size combined with large production mean they can make good use of the district adjancency bonus by building several districts in each city.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

if what you want is some gruelling challenge then the civ series has never been the place to look for it.

If by "never" you mean since the start of Civ 6, then yes, I agree. Civs 1 through 5, though, offered very interesting game play and were a challenge for me to beat at the higher levels. Some of them I could never beat.

Civ 6 is different, and I'm glad you're enjoying it. But it is materially different in the quality of challenge presented by the AI. Purposefully so, I believe.

As you say, it's now meant to be exclusively a fun and relaxing game play experience, whereas in the past it included both that option and more challenging game play options for those who were looking for that experience.

 

[Jkchart]

Well, production is useful for just about everything.

I wonder if the district system will inhibit them, though. Hug a bunch of mountains and build terrace farms....Now where does the campus or encampment go?

In the flatlands that you haven't used yet for the encampment I'm sure you can find a flat tile near a mountain or a hill tile you haven't used yet for that campus. You can choose not to plaster every hill with terrace farms.

 

[Cerilis]

I approve of this freshly announced builder puzzle.

 

[MaryKB]

*sigh*

I feel the Inca look very interesting, and I love internal trade routes and such, but I'm rather disappointed and bored how all four sneak peeks so far have been male leaders. You can do better Firaxis

 

[Sostratus]

2. About mountain tunnels: please show on stream or ask them about the movement mechanics.

On TSL maps, poor brazil. The inca will hole up with their absurd food buffs behind the andes. Then bore right through. No one expects the surprise Warak:

 

[steveg700]

If you're not balancing the game rules around what's most effective, then what are you balancing them around?

Balance them around making dynamic decisions rather than fixed notions of "what's most effective". Balanced around notions of choices rather than rote scripts of beelining the same behaviors every game.

Take notions of what's effective and not effective, and give players cause to re-examine.

 

[Giskler]

If by "never" you mean since the start of Civ 6, then yes, I agree. Civs 1 through 5, though, offered very interesting game play and were a challenge for me to beat at the higher levels. Some of them I could never beat.

Civ 6 is different, and I'm glad you're enjoying it. But it is materially different in the quality of challenge presented by the AI. Purposefully so, I believe.

As you say, it's now meant to be exclusively a fun and relaxing game play experience, whereas in the past it included both that option and more challenging game play options for those who were looking for that experience.

By never, I mean since Civ 1, the AI has always cheated at the higher difficulties and never posed any real or meaningful challenge. Sure, I can beat the game at Deity, but what's the point? It gets very gamey in order to beat the massive bonuses the AI gets and personally I get more enjoyment out of just playing some relaxing games on Prince/King/Emperor.

 

[steveg700]

*sigh*

I feel the Inca look very interesting, and I love internal trade routes and such, but I'm rather disappointed and bored how all four sneak peeks so far have been male leaders. You can do better Firaxis

Yeah, Firaxis! Nail those quotas.

My 2 cents:

1. I wonder if Inca’s mountain bonuses will actually make mountain tiles worthwhile in comparison with regular tiles. Yes, they get yields and can work them - but mountain tiles also mean no districts to place, no features to chop (even with CO2 considerations), no resources to obtain. They might end up in what I call “The Indonesia trap” - yes, Kampungs are strong, but you are still handicapping yourself if your city has too few regular land tiles.

Well, consider that with any civ, you can get mountains (or water) tiles that do nothing for your cities. You can wind up not settling an area at all because there are no options for productiion. With the Inca, options open up.

 

[Jkchart]

If by "never" you mean since the start of Civ 6, then yes, I agree. Civs 1 through 5, though, offered very interesting game play and were a challenge for me to beat at the higher levels. Some of them I could never beat.

Civ 6 is different, and I'm glad you're enjoying it. But it is materially different in the quality of challenge presented by the AI. Purposefully so, I believe.

As you say, it's now meant to be exclusively a fun and relaxing game play experience, whereas in the past it included both that option and more challenging game play options for those who were looking for that experience.

As much as I kind of agree with the post you quoted, you hit the nail on the head. Civ IV was notoriously difficult for me to master and win. Civ V wasn't in the earliest builds, but did get more challenging. But IV could be brutally unforgiving. It is only fair for those that want a challenge to have their challenge.

 

[Ziad]

Yeah, Firaxis! Nail those quotas.

I'm personally bored with their European quotas tbh

 

[AmazonQueen]

*sigh*

I feel the Inca look very interesting, and I love internal trade routes and such, but I'm rather disappointed and bored how all four sneak peeks so far have been male leaders. You can do better Firaxis

They are saving the best for last.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

I think you're heavily overestimating the amount of production the Inca will have. A Mountain is 0F/2P. You can add 1F for every adjacent Terrace Farm, but those Terrace Farms take the place of a Hill Mine (and Campus or Holy Site).

Terrace Farms are better along rivers, where they act like both a Mine and a Farm at the same time. They don't get the era boosts to production that Mines get (though they do get the Farm advancements it seems). From a pure production perspective, though, they're no better than an early Mine.

Even with an ideal map setup, you're going to be a fair way into the game before you can generate decent early city yields replacing Mines with Terrace Farms.

Where the Inca will shine will be in the late game, if the game rules have changed to reward larger cities.

Thats fair criticism, but how many times do you start a new game and not get a minimum of 5F/3P worth of tiles to be able to proceed? Tile buying a mountain could help a bit, especially early on. Sometimes settling near a mountain to protect your flank from an aggressive neighbor is worth the loss but with Inca they can actually work that tile. Unless I am missing something like they are not able to work a mountain tile on turn 1, I don't see how that is an issue.

They can also work the almost worthless desert hills too into their bonuses. Also unlike Canada, none of their bonuses are late game stuff, which is good. This game is still heavily skewed toward strong early civs. I highly doubt the GS expansion will change that. I certainly do not see enough to think it will.

This civ just won't be easy to play like others pointed out. Planning correctly is a must. They will obviously get a start bias for mountains, like Kongo gets for jungle tiles, but nobody probably knows how good that will be on average. One thing that concerns me is the available area for districts and wonders. Gonna be tough I bet.

I do wish they had one more extra bonus like unit movement over hills or extra gold.

 

[V. Soma]

I expect 2 tile limit too

This would surprise me to no end.
AFAIK, tunnels consume two movement points. I seriously doubt, Firaxis (who added those super slow roads in Civ6) will let us teleport all over the map all of a sudden.

Canals are limited in their length, too. I expect tunnels (and their Inca counterpart) to be limited to 2 tile distances.

 

[Alexadamz]

One thing I am trying to figure now and I still haven't seen people bringing it up: some Natural Wonders appears as mountains (at least the game says so). Inca plus Mount Everest, Mount Roraima or Mount Kilimanjaro can be really good - we could work those tiles for 2 production plus their bonuses for adjacent tiles? Well, each of the Natural Wonder tile is adjacent to the others so we could get some sweet yields.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

They are saving the best for last.

Yes. If the leak is to be believed, and at this point there's no reason not to, then 3 of the next 5 reveals will be female leaders.