[GS] Inca Discussion Thread

[gozon]

I'm sure I got that with Australia once. Either way I don't think you need a tunnel to build one.

Oh I meant literally sending units (eg. Great Scientists) into the tile surrounded by 6 mountains. Or have Galileo activate on such a tile.

 

[Cagarustus]

Wait I’m confused? Can terrace farms be built on flat land as well? I thought it was just hills??

 

[gozon]

Wait I’m confused? Can terrace farms be built on flat land as well? I thought it was just hills??

Just hills

 

[Cagarustus]

Just hills

Where does it say this? Nowhere I’ve read they can only be built on hills.

 

[bite]

Where does it say this? Nowhere I’ve read they can only be built on hills.

It says it in the tool tip (can only be built on Desert, Plains, and Grassland hills)

 

[Cagarustus]

It says it in the tool tip (can only be built on Desert, Plains, and Grassland hills)

Ah ok. Thanks!

 

[CivLuvah]

You have the best post for the expansion so far. Congratulations.



Seriously, where were these when the Inca appeared in Civ5?

 

[Stomper66]

Also Willka Waman just makes me think of Willy Wonka.

Willka Waman was found by Twajan and Wome! (Sorry Monty Python joke).

They won't be easy to play. You will have to balance mines for production, terrace farms for food and some production and districts (especially campus and a holy site for mountain adjacency bonus). This makes this Civ great for builder type of player like me.

With all the production from mountain tiles I don't think you'll be wanting mines. You'll probably have to save them hills for farms and districts.

Seems fun. Sad to see Machu Picchu as a (strange looking) wonder.

Yeah the Inca look cool I really like the leader design and the music, and the mountain passes seem really interesting too. I thought the Terrace farms visually look a bit boring they looked more striking in civ5. Theres not much distinguishing them for normal farms built on hills really. The Polder was much more visually impressive especially in later eras.

And I really hope that is not Machu Picchu civ6 has done such a good job with the wonders and it can look so much better (it still looks good in civ5!) Looking at those images it looks more like a village in the Bavarian Alps!

 

[Sostratus]

Re watching the video, at about 01:06 when the Warak goes through the tunnel, it traverses the volcano to get there. That's a three tile move. I'm wondering if this means they have to coded to allow you to exit any portal that is on a contiguous mountain range- basically doing a BFS along mountain ranges and marking other tunnels as valid exit points- which would mean that on the map in the FL video you could teleport across inca land in like 3 Qhapac nans! (just building along the two end of a long snaky chain.)
Prepare for warp speed!

 

[steveg700]

I'm glad you're enjoying Civ 6 and find it similar to previous iterations of Civ, but I don't.

Well, this is how I reconcile my cognitive dissonance:

Civ VI is a highly addictive activity.

Civ Vi, as a game, is sorely lacking.

Paradox or Amplitude of whoever need to abandon this notion that Firaxis owns this style to such a degree that it's not even worth being the Pepsi or Burker King of historical 4X.

 

[pgm123]

We can also argue whether Georgia is really European or not; at the very least it's ambiguous. Or we could cut it and include Armenia instead next time...

Just don't have the argument in Georgia. (Though some of Georgians' strong push to be viewed internationally as European is geopolitical--there's a desire to be associated with Europe, the EU, and NATO, and not Russia and the former Soviet Bloc)

Well, we should really figure that out! If they're European, they become inherently boring.

Their new marketing is focused on East Meets West. Sort of like Turkey in that way but mountainous and Greek Orthodox.

I'm glad you're enjoying Civ 6 and find it similar to previous iterations of Civ, but I don't.

I'm a huge fan of the series. I've played them all and Civ 5 was my favourite. Do you think I'm disappointed in Civ 6 because I don't like the number 6? No. It's because Civ 6, so far, does not offer the type of gameplay that I enjoyed from Civs 1 to 5.

I'm okay with that. I'm happy to wait for Civ 7 and see what it brings. But I'd be even happier if they made some adjustments to Civ 6 in GS to bring it more in line with the experience that was provided by Civs 1 through 5, which for me was a real and meaningful challenge which made playing the game a fun experience, win or lose.

I like Civ VI a good bit more than Civ V (which I rarely revisit except to play Venice). Civ IV still offers me a lot, though, so I'll play that quite a bit.

 

[returnofbabylon]

If by "never" you mean since the start of Civ 6, then yes, I agree. Civs 1 through 5, though, offered very interesting game play and were a challenge for me to beat at the higher levels. Some of them I could never beat.

Civ 6 is different, and I'm glad you're enjoying it. But it is materially different in the quality of challenge presented by the AI. Purposefully so, I believe.

As you say, it's now meant to be exclusively a fun and relaxing game play experience, whereas in the past it included both that option and more challenging game play options for those who were looking for that experience.

I pretty much agree with this, but I have a slightly different take I think.

I've recently been playing some IV again, and it really is striking how much harder it is. There's no question that a significant portion of that is due to the AI. 1UPT has rendered the AI almost useless in wars. The policy card system in VI which offers so much versatility to the human player is too complicated for the AI to optimize. Eurekas and Inspirations, same deal. Et cetera, et cetera. Some of this is inevitable IMO. As Civ gets more complicated, a human player is naturally going to prove more capable at navigating the additional systems. Personally, despite this tendency I don't view "dumbing down" the game to make it more playable for the AI as a good solution.

Which leads me to my broader point (which supports your contention that the change is purposeful) - AI wasn't the only reason the higher levels were so hard in previous versions of Civ. In the original, for instance, on the lowest difficulty your first 6 citizens were content, but on the highest you only got 2 content citizens. Keeping your people happy was much harder if you played on the highest difficulty. You would notice the difference in gameplay even if you spawned on an isolated island and never encountered an AI civ. Contrast this with Civ VI, where you need the same number of amenities to keep your people content whether you're playing on Settler or Deity. Settler-King basically all play like the exact same game; once you catch up and negate the AI's initial bonuses, Emperor, Immortal, and Deity feel more or less the same as well.

While I'm all for improving the AI, I think it makes sense to implement other ways to make the game harder at higher levels. If on Deity your second citizen demanded an amenity to be content, and every citizen after that demanded an additional amenity, the game would get significantly harder even with the exact same AI. The same could be said for escalating unit maintenance costs; there's no reason why a knight has to cost the same amount of gold per turn on Settler and Deity. Heck, you could even give vanilla builders 4 charges on Settler and 2 on Deity if you want. The new natural disasters mechanic basically begs to have a difficulty component (in addition to the severity settings they're going to let us set at the start of the game). There's ample room within the existing mechanics to make Deity much more difficult (and Settler easier, as far as that goes) without any improvement to the AI. These types of changes would also reduce the pressure on the AI to provide a challenge to the human player, allowing it to roleplay more and ideally increase immersion. I'm not sure you could make VI as hard as the previous titles without improving the AI (I doubt it), but you could make it far more difficult than it currently is.

I don't think there's much chance FXS implements any of this. But overall, I think it's an oversimplification to say that Civ VI is easy because of the bad AI; the bad AI makes it easier, but Civ VI is easier because they designed it that way. This bothers me less than other people, as I'm not a great player, but it still bothers me - if VI fails to overtake IV as the best game of the series (my opinion, of course), this will be one of the reasons why.

 

[Greywulf]

Hey, they made them niche as well! Very cool! I'm very happy with the Inca, and looking forward to playing as them too! I think I'll play them next after playing the Maori for a few rounds. They'll also make a good rival for the Mapuche, especially on true start location earth map...even though the Inca are designed to thrive in isolation.

Well done Firaxis, and thank you for adding the Inca!

 

[bengalryan9]

Kind of surprised so many people think everyone will be able to use the Incan's unique mountain paths. I look at it as being difficult hidden paths known only to the Incans, unable to be traversed by outsiders, so I suspect only the Incan troops will be able to make use of them. Yeah, that's a big advantage for them, but they are set up as an isolationist civ that will be difficult to invade so I think it fits. Might even be neat if the actual entrance and exits themselves were hidden to other players... could lead to some cool strategies where you goad an army into your lands only to ambush them from behind.

Just my two cents.

 

[DWilson]

I'm excited to play as the third "worst civ yet" in a row.

 

[Ziad]

Tons of food and production for big cities and wide play.

This will definitely be fun! I will personify his mountain agenda to the max

 

[Greywulf]

Tons of food and production for big cities and wide play.

This will definitely be fun! I will personify his mountain agenda to the max

I really like to get lots of food for my cities when I'm playing Civ, and this will certainly be a way of doing that.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Nearly a blank Civ.

Early and low-cost mountain tunnels, may be useful , but highly situational.
Work on mountains, those mountains only provide +2 prod, +1 food from each nearby Terrace, seems not a good yield to be worked on. But maybe I'm wrong.

Terrace, is it anything better than mine? Do we need that much food?

UU, yes the UU may be strong on its 1st attempt, it can beat any Medieval unit one on one by 2 40-strength initial ranged attacks. It is terribly strong when leveling up to level 3.
But it has only 1 range and 20 defend strength, so easy to lose.

War between Incans are always full of tricks and traps, since an Inca UU can kill another Inca UU in 1 turn!

How about its cost, does it adopt the Skirmisher's 150?

Does it receive the -17 modifier against cities? If not then it's really useful.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Inca PVP must be interesting, hide your UUs behind mountains and try to trap and kill your enemy in 1 turn!
Once your UU being attacked it becomes too weak.

 

[cvb]

The Qhapaq Ñan isn't a tunnel. You can see that it's just a stone arch, presumably marking some kind of mountain path.
It would have been nice to have included some kind of graphic for the path itself, but I can imagine that might be difficult.

Yeah, that's why I'd like them to change the animation. Granted, that's a small thing, but I think it would add and wouldn't be difficult as they already have the moving animation.

I'm afraid, that will become more difficult than expected ... (in the end there is a reason why this one has the nickname Schrödinger's expansion.)

Some simply describe the effect as "teleport from one portal to another". But in the video @1:07 you can clearly see, that the mountain tile itself isn't a valid target for the Warak'Aq's move!
Looks like the Warak'Aq may not end his move on that tile (or not). Ie. he is there, but in the moment you look at it, you change his state. So he is there as well as not at the same time.

Maybe that will make it tricky for the Warak'Aq to defend the mountain tile with its portals (entry point to their empire!) - he got 2 shots per turn, but keep in mind: each time he will be able to shoot or not.

Hope we'll see more effects of the wave-particle duality in the future era.