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[GS] Inca Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Cagarustus

    Cagarustus Prince

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    It is a unique set of bonuses and whilst there are not bonuses to science culture or faith there is for hammers. The Inca seem to be able to rely on the environment more than other civs which means that in the case of an environmental disaster such as a flood or hurricane youre not as susceptible to losing production from damaged districts etc, except for the terrace farms of course.

    I agree it might be a bit boring to play sometimes but I think with patience and perseverance it can be an enjoyable civ to play.

    Also, flat tiles near mountains would still be useful for campuses and holy sites.
     
  2. Tinker

    Tinker Prince

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  3. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    I was amused at a news article not so long ago in which young Chinese dismissed Britain as "an old country".

    I presume the intent was to refer to it as being past the peak of its relevance in contrast to China's current ascendancy, but viewed in a historical context it seemed ironic to say the least.

    Sure, but I don't find Canada boring because its bonus is crap - I find it boring because a civ that rests entirely on being able to bring useless tiles up to more or less the same standard as normal tiles just isn't interesting. The civ's not exploring anything very new design-wise, in the AI's hands it's just another bunch of cities the human player will have no interest in, and in multiplayer - and if city quality factored into AI targeting decisions - it's just emphasising the solitaire nature of Civ since no one else will compete for your stuff (though at least mountains are desirable for some things where tundra isn't).

    One civ like that in an expansion is fine, and it makes more sense for Inca to be a mountain civ than Canada a tundra civ, but two in the same expansion - and revealed in successive weeks, no less - is bound to invite comparisons and a sense that they're running low on new ideas to explore.

    A new civ needn't be as divergent from the norm as the Maori to be interesting, but to me the Inca aren't getting there. They look like Canada (buffs to useless terrain) and look to play like Khmer (food, more food, and not a whole lot else).
     
  4. King William I

    King William I Prince

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    That's not necessarily a bad thing. History is just the same thing happening at different times and/or places. It makes sense for some civs to feel similar.
     
  5. Cagarustus

    Cagarustus Prince

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    Can you explain how +2 production (potentially +3 production) is a useless tile?

    By that logic a mine is a useless tile.
     
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  6. Softly

    Softly Warlord

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    Only counts for non-combat XP.
     
  7. Softly

    Softly Warlord

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    That is why Hungry is my favorite civ so far. They are 50% strong efficient deity mechanics and 50% interesting role-play mechanics.
     
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  8. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    Mines are not merely 2 production unless they are on desert or snow. They also include the yields from the base tile, typically 2 Food or 1 Food, 1 Production; which make for a juicy tile when combined with the mine. Just 2 Production on a mountain is crap. Fortunately, they also get 1 Food per adjacent Terrace Farm which makes them very appealing.
     
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  9. Wingednosering

    Wingednosering Prince

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    First of all, love the design. Great emphasis on both mountains and roads. Two UIs is great (even if one is just an earlier version of something).

    However, they seem weak. Unique recon units usually stuck and food is mostly useless at the highest level of play.
     
  10. Cagarustus

    Cagarustus Prince

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    +2 production without any tile improvements. If a city owns 3 tiles it can produce +6 production where other civs cannot. That’s better than a yield from an industrial zone in most cases.

    Second, mountains can’t be affected by natural disasters whereas mines and other improvements can. Sure it’s constant thoughout the game but it provides a distinct advantage to the Inca.
     
  11. gozon

    gozon Chieftain

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    I like builder civs, but I don't see myself building a lot of terrace farms. They compete for locations with mines and districts, and if I really want city growth, the buffed internal trade routes have that covered. It's weird that two of their abilities give extra food.

    Also, it that a custom monument I see in the screenshot? I don't remember seeing that monument before. (I hope Maori gets a custom monument too. The obelisk seems out of place for Maori)\

    Edit: monument is the same as Aztec's
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  12. drubell

    drubell Prince

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    I’d be interested to know if invaders are able to move through Qhapaq Nan improvements or if only Incan units can do so. I guess since it’s not mentioned, they should be able to go through them. If not, Incans would have a very interesting tactical advantage on defense by using mountain paths invaders cannot.

    With the addition of the Skirmisher, it’s more likely than before that your scouts can remain relevant enough to get the upgrade into getting the Ambush promotion to boost combat strength by +20. This potentially can make the Incan Skirmisher really nasty if scouts are promoted right.

    The ability to work mountains gives an opportunity for focusing production cities despite being stuck in production-low areas. That’s nice to give more leeway for producing units in cities you might otherwise find production-poor, which tends to be the case when you start getting to your 4th city and forward.

    I’d argue that the domestic trade route bonus to food is inferior to the bonus to domestic trade routes for Poland, but only in the mid and late game. Getting traders up early to provide food to grow your early cities is a very powerful bonus.

    Overall, not bad. I’m just not incredibly excited about it since Inca is very focused on its terrace farms and while that was my favorite UI in Civ 5, it just leaves me to shrug to see it again in Civ 6.
     
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  13. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    I never said it would be boring. It just will not work well as it is. Maybe if the let the Incans buy mountain tiles at half price, or added some culture somewhere...

    Well the mountains are probably meant to be used last, but by that time they will be totally outclassed. So they need better scaling as well.
     
  14. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    But they have extra citizens to work those tiles. Inca get less production per capita because you won't be building as many mines as usual, but the overal production in your cities will be higher than normal in most cases because there are more production tiles to work. We all know how OP spice tiles are. Inca basically get spice tiles *on every hill*. The real power behind their bonuses will depend on how early the Terrace Farm unlocks. If it's at Craftmanship, they're solidly strong. if it's at Civil Engineering, they're mediocre.

    The only real downside that I see to the Inca is that Amenities will be a huge bottleneck with all the extra pop if they decide to go wide. But that's partially solved by Dams and the World Congress providing extra sources of Amenities, two districts which don't count towards the population cap. Not sure if EC and WP get buffed to provide more amenities, but if they do, you can throw that in as well.
     
  15. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    The metagame philosophy I've heard and read favours only working tiles that produce a yield of 4 or more, unless the yield includes science, culture or faith (which are harder to come by). This treats production, food and gold as essentially similar in value - in reality a production-only tile is only workable at all if you can support it with a food tile with extra yield elsewhere. Every food-less mountain you work demands a 4+ food tile, a granary or a permanent food-producing trade route to support that population - so they are literally unworkable if you're unable to supply that. For a mountain to produce the 2 food necessary to sustain working it while still growing the city demands two terrace farms adjacent to it, which is not going to be an arrangement you can run across that often.
     
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  16. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    But you need the mountain tiles, first.
     
  17. CPWimmer

    CPWimmer King

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    The tunnel system is 3 tiles long here, you can tell by the locations of the exits, and where the unit actually moves.
    The mountain due east of the Warak'Aq is the start point. The mountain 2 tiles south east of the Warak'Aq is the exit point.
    The Warak'Aq uses those 2 portals to end up in the tile 3 south of their current location.

    The only adjacency requirement mentioned in the Mountain Tunnel tool-tip is referring to the tile the builder is in, and the tile he can build a tunnel on (an adjacent mountain tile). There is no restriction on where those portals are in relation to each other. Looking at the way the builder is actually used in the video (1:05 of the video), I do think that the builder unit needs to be activated within your own borders, but actually creates a portal exit on all sides of the adjacent mountain tile that is selected (which does not appear to have to be within your borders).

    If I recall, in a previous live stream it was mentioned that there is a buff to trade routes that go through canals, and I believe tunnels as well. If so, and if it applies to Qhapaq'Nan, that is an extra unwritten buff to add to our analysis of the Inca's abilities.

    Of course we will learn more on Thursday when @FXS_Sarah explains it all to us in the Live Stream.
     
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  18. Tchuli

    Tchuli Chieftain

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    I was re-watching the First Look and noticed that when a Builder creates a Qhapaq Ñan on a Mountain tile, it creates entrances/exits in all directions of that Mountain, so it seems that it'll be quite possible to access a tile that is completely surrounded by Mountains...

    Inca.png

    p.s.: Sorry if anyone had already confirmed this on a comment here... I've read a lot of them, but not all... It's hard keeping up with you guys...
     
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  19. Duuk

    Duuk Doom-Sayer Supporter

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    Also can't be pillaged. That's not nothing.
     
  20. NegativeZero

    NegativeZero Warlord

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    The other day I tested if Survey doubles combat exp for recon units... and it does. Unless they change it for GS, I expect it to stay the same.

    Non-barb battles with Survey was giving my Okihtcitaws +8 exp per initiated battle. At the level of exp, your recon units could get ambush within ~7-8 battles.
     
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