This sounds like something the game is absolutely not built around. It also sounds like something the AI would be horrible at using.
Inca
- Thread starter Damirith
- Start date
This sounds like something the game is absolutely not built around. It also sounds like something the AI would be horrible at using.
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
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We could ditch the terrace farm all together and move its intent to the UA. Have mountains send food down to improvements on hills, and improvements on hills send food down to flatland farms. Get rid of the quick-moving part of the UA, and then figure out a UB that fits the inca.
matlajs
King
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gods, just not that part about removing inca mountain/hill movement. they would become most food powerfull civ in game while being boring for have nothing else. idea about mountains providing food to adjacent tilles is good itself.btw this deal for terraces providing food to farms may cause terraces become most boring improvement at all, but incas would be overall strong, so i dont know. too many opinions on this.
edit: while im thinking about mountains boosting tilles well, i also think incas with good start may become unstopable and unbalanced. but, untill we cant try it, we cant judge it.
edit: while im thinking about mountains boosting tilles well, i also think incas with good start may become unstopable and unbalanced. but, untill we cant try it, we cant judge it.
I guess this would involve giving them a special rule allowing hills to be farmed (because I don't see mountains adding food to adjacent mines as a viable option
).I'll admit that I'm not extremely opposed to removing the terrace-farm, but what would be the alternative? most early buildings are already taken and what would a unique building even do that would feel thematic without already overlapping with the rest of the kit?
matlajs
King
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something instead of well ? every tille producing food will produce 1 extra food. or maybe all tiles without features, so no forests/jungles. but if that should be something arround food, then it seem to me replace something already in place with something similar.
every tille producing food will produce 1 extra food. or maybe all tiles without features, so no forests/jungles. but if that should be something arround food, then it seem to me replace something already in place with something similar.
tu_79
Deity
We can change the UI Terrace Farm for the UB Terrace Farm, a replacement for Aqueduct that gives extra food to hill tiles, and gain food in the city for every mountain in range, or something like that. More or less, same bonus: less food, but less work too. Any other effect could be added to this building to let them stand without hills, like giving a specialist slot or some happiness.
India already have an aqueduct replacement.
thecraftybee
Warlord
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And it would be a shame to lose the UI graphic.
Gothic_Empire
AKA, Ramen Empire
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Just gonna spit-ball stuff out in the event that terrace farms do get replaced. The idea behind this basic concept is to settle a lot of cities in hills, and create a powerful capital by improving certain resources.
Inca
UA - Terrace Farms - Can construct farms in hills. Mountains and improved resourced in hills add food and gold to adjacent hills. Can move quickly across hills and mountains.
UB - Hatunrumiyoc (Palace) - A cocoa or gold resource spawns nearby settled cities. Improved cocoa resources add faith to the capital. Improved gold adds culture to the capital.
UU - Slinger - stet.
Inca
UA - Terrace Farms - Can construct farms in hills. Mountains and improved resourced in hills add food and gold to adjacent hills. Can move quickly across hills and mountains.
UB - Hatunrumiyoc (Palace) - A cocoa or gold resource spawns nearby settled cities. Improved cocoa resources add faith to the capital. Improved gold adds culture to the capital.
UU - Slinger - stet.
JungleBucks
Warlord
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- Nov 10, 2015
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There aren't many UI Civs in game, and it would be a shame to just lose a UI like that for something as generic as a building icon and some extra yields. Surely something else can be done to simply improve the worth of the UI rather than remove it entirely.
Sensefocus
Chieftain
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- Sep 8, 2016
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Why do we stick to 1 unique per building anyway? Sorry if it was answered elsewhere.
Horvath Broncos
Warlord
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Terrace farms could be Chinas UI in a case where you remove it from incas. But then you had the same problems with another civ with their UI. Also paper maker is such a good UB that loosing it would be a shame. So summa summarum this isn't really that good idea all together.
Because it makes them feel more unique?
Sensefocus
Chieftain
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You can uniqify 1 building in so many different ways that it hardly matters what it was in the first place. I think the current principle substantially limits design flexibility. For instance you can't make two civs with unique barracks even though you need a way to make them dominant in early warfare and the building would match nicely with their history or provides more interesting mechanics than ua/uu.
tu_79
Deity
There are 4 region-centric civs: Polynesia (coast), Songhai (rivers), Iroquois (forests/jungle) and Inca (hills/mountains). Coast are the easiest to find, and plentiful, so nothing wrong if the bonuses are all for being near the coast. The others works more or less in the same way: faster movement, city connections, extra yields. Outside their starting point, expansion could be tricky, but almost every civ have something to help them if the terrain isn't favorable.
Songhai gets extra gold from pillaging (and has a unique that can pillage quite well), and the river tiles are yielding culture. Iroquois gets extra production from forests and saves a little in road maintenance. Inca gets extra food and gold from mountains and tons of food from Terrace Farms, when they can be placed.
It depends a lot on the map, but usually forests/jungles are easier to find than long rivers, and much easier than mountain chains. Even so, Iroquois feel a little weaker than Shongai (culture boost and pillaging makes up for the lack of extra rivers), but Inca is definitely weaker, unless it keeps itself in just 3-4 cities around the (lucky) starting mountainous region.
Inca's best is on mountains: extra food and gold from UA, ability to move over them, extra food from UI. Too much relies on them, but mountains are the rarest tiles in most maps. Hills are much much more common, but there Inca gets only removed movement penalty (something that roads already alleviate) and extra food.
*********
We have proposed several things already. But after that analysis I'd say that what Inca needs more is less dependency on mountains, and more interesting yields on hills.
Let's see:
UA: Treat mountains like hills. Removed movement penalty on hills and improved resources on hills give 1 extra yield (sheep give 1 extra food, silver gives 1 extra gold,...)
UB: Terrace Farm. Build on hills, gives 1 production to tile and grants +1 food to adjacent farms and terrace farms. Gets extra food on Civil Service and Fertilizer.
Songhai gets extra gold from pillaging (and has a unique that can pillage quite well), and the river tiles are yielding culture. Iroquois gets extra production from forests and saves a little in road maintenance. Inca gets extra food and gold from mountains and tons of food from Terrace Farms, when they can be placed.
It depends a lot on the map, but usually forests/jungles are easier to find than long rivers, and much easier than mountain chains. Even so, Iroquois feel a little weaker than Shongai (culture boost and pillaging makes up for the lack of extra rivers), but Inca is definitely weaker, unless it keeps itself in just 3-4 cities around the (lucky) starting mountainous region.
Inca's best is on mountains: extra food and gold from UA, ability to move over them, extra food from UI. Too much relies on them, but mountains are the rarest tiles in most maps. Hills are much much more common, but there Inca gets only removed movement penalty (something that roads already alleviate) and extra food.
*********
We have proposed several things already. But after that analysis I'd say that what Inca needs more is less dependency on mountains, and more interesting yields on hills.
Let's see:
UA: Treat mountains like hills. Removed movement penalty on hills and improved resources on hills give 1 extra yield (sheep give 1 extra food, silver gives 1 extra gold,...)
UB: Terrace Farm. Build on hills, gives 1 production to tile and grants +1 food to adjacent farms and terrace farms. Gets extra food on Civil Service and Fertilizer.
Just have to point out that while long rivers are kinda rare, shorter one are a lot more common than large forests. And while the ability to connect cities with long rivers is pretty nice, the UB only requires like 5 or 6 river-tiles to be really good. Also the ability to attack across rivers and quickly reposition across rivers is a lot better than the ability to move quicker in forest.
Also while big forests are usually seen as subpar to farmed fields, a river is almost never seen as a bad thing. Your enemies also have the ability (and a good reason to) remove all the forests in their territory, leaving the Iroquois ability rather useless on the offensive after the earlygame. A river on the other hand can't really be removed, and probably wouldn't get removed even if it could be.
tu_79
Deity
Yep, a more thoroughly explanation that Songhai is better than Iroquois. What do you think of this proposed change for Inca?
Kinda weird in the sense that some tiles are treated as other tiles, that's a really weird concept that doesn't really match up with the rest of the game. I'm not sure if it's even possible.
Also kinda boring in the sense that you still have a ua and a ui working together to form one ability. It's kinda hard to explain, but it feels like both of them is necessary to achieve a decent effect and I really don't like that. Same reason why I'm not really a fan of the Egyptian Burial tomb, if a unique can't stand on its own but require effects from another unique then it usually just end up looking underwhelming.
tu_79
Deity
I see, they are hills and then more hills. I understand the 'boreness'. But at least they are more common. By 'Treat the mountain like hills', I wanted to sum up the 'can pass over mountains' and 'build roads in mountains' thing. Perhaps letting them yield +2 production, like unimproved hills do.
If we want to get something different from UA, then hills have to stay with the Terrace Farms, as they are naturally attached. The UA needs to be something that benefits from the Terrace Farm, but that could be used in any type of terrain. Extra food turns into more populated cities or more specialists. So, something around those things may work.
EDIT: Also, the other unexplored facet for Inca is their lengendary gold mines. Mines on resources giving extra gold?
EDIT2: How about
UA: Can pass over and build roads on mountains. Investing in buildings grants 1 turn of WLTKD in the city, 2 if Wonders.
UU: Slinger: Hit twice. +20%CS against units on lower terrain (keep on upgrade).
UI: Terrace Farm, build on hills, same movement cost as flat lands. Gets 1 gold per adjacent mountain and 1 production per adjacent improved resource, grants 1 food to adjacent farms and terrace farms.
Right now, only China has something for WLTKD, and it fits the peaceful Inca people.
Workerspam
Prince
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- Aug 22, 2016
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Is it possible to give the Inca a straight bonus for working sheep tiles? Or pastures on hills? That would lessen the pain from sheep ruining great Terrace farm locations and make them less dependent on mountain chains while still keeping them hill based. If you consider the Incan sheep to be llamas it'd even be thematic.
